An Bord Pleanala overturn grant of planning

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DeBarr

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We were granted planning by our local authority earlier in the year however our neighbour appealed to An Bord Pleanala. There is a history with this neighbour - he has gone out of his way to object to anything in the local environs. Also he has his eye on the field in which we want to build.

To cut a long story short An Bord Pleanala overturned the grant of planning by the local authority and there is some really suspect reasons:
Percolation test which was fine and accepted by the council, housing need : An Brod Pleanala saw there was no need even though we are from the area, do not have a house and are living with mother-in-law while waiting to build. The report states the area in under strong urban influence where it clearly states in the County Developement Plan that it is a structurally weak area.

I'm just wondering if anyone else out there has had a similar experience and if so what did you do?
 
There is often little or no logic from ABP, I was in a different situation, we objected to the monstrosity our next door neighbour was building, the local county council rejected the planning application (twice,) the ABP planner who visited the site recommended it be rejected yet ABP went ahead and granted planning permission. In hindsight it was the best thing that ever happened in that we were forced to sell but did so at the peak of the market, but at the same time the sheer lack of logic in the decision was bizarre.
 
The ABP is a loose cannon. It can go your way or against you for no tangible reason. I dont think its residual bias or political pressure. The statistics shown that their decisions break down to around 30% accept the local A decision, 30% reject and 30% variation on conditions. It just your bad/good luck what individual planner you get assigned to the job. Take cognicance of the reasons for the adverse decision, and you should get the ok next time.
 
ABP makes all decisions based on Planning Law.
I'm afraid Your neighbours alledged motives are irrelevant. All objections must be based on planning law, as must all appeals.

I agree that its decisions seem to break into 30% accept the local Authority decision, 30% reject and 30% variation on conditions.

Any future application on this site will need to prove all conditions of past refusal have been adequately addressed / rectified otherwise you will be wasting your time & money.

Technically ABP decisions can be appealed in the High Court, which is extremely expensive. Not something I would advise.
 
runner said:
It just your bad/good luck what individual planner you get assigned to the job.
Click to expand...
Not true - the individual planner / inspector makes a recommendation to a sub-group of three members of the board of ABP. They make the decision, which is then ratified by the full board.

The board regularly overrule the recommendation of their own inspectors.
 
from my experience of dealing with ABP ( a good outcome in my case: was refused by the council twice but ABP gave it to me), it's up to you to convey to them how your plans are consistent with the current development plan, planning regulations etc. it's also up to you to point out other cases in your vicinity where the council may have gone against their own development plan etc, and if that's the case then the same should be applied to you. it looks like at this point, you've no option but to start from scratch again, but keep in there, it's worth it in the end.
 
DeBarr said:
We were granted planning by our local authority earlier in the year however our neighbour appealed to An Bord Pleanala. There is a history with this neighbour - he has gone out of his way to object to anything in the local environs. Also he has his eye on the field in which we want to build.

To cut a long story short An Bord Pleanala overturned the grant of planning by the local authority and there is some really suspect reasons:
Percolation test which was fine and accepted by the council, housing need : An Brod Pleanala saw there was no need even though we are from the area, do not have a house and are living with mother-in-law while waiting to build. The report states the area in under strong urban influence where it clearly states in the County Developement Plan that it is a structurally weak area.

I'm just wondering if anyone else out there has had a similar experience and if so what did you do?
Click to expand...


One thing I have learnt in planning - persistence pays off.
Its possible that with a different approach you might succeed.
Don't expect the road to be short, straight, level or without cost.
You need someone well-versed in planning law to see this one through.
PM me if you decide you want to take detailed advice on planning strategy.

ONQ.

[broken link removed]
 
Folks

Thanks for all the replies and words of encouragement. I went through the Inspectors Report with a fine toothcomb since and am amazed at the number of inaccuracies and the complete lack of attention to anything we submitted and if I may say so downright incompetence shown by ABP.

One of the inspectors recommendations was to utilse an existing dwelling on the land nearby which is owned by the family. He said he inspected it and it is in habitable condition. The only drawback which he failed to notice was the dwelling is a one bed cottage and our application was to house our family of 6 (Mum, Dad (Me) and 4 kids). I actally rang An Bord P about this and the guy on the phone said I had his sympathies but the only thing we could do was to go to the High Court even if the inspector was wrong.

In addition to the inspector's gaffe above I counted (to date) no less than 15 factual inaccuracies in his report. He said my job was not specified and there it is in all its glory on the Planning Application form!!!! Other mistakes include: he states there is a lack of documentary evidence on correspondence with DoEHLG, An Taisce etc even though on the Co Co website all the dovcumentation is clearly there - they were consulted with 3 times each.

The worst thing I find with this sorry mess is we are not consulted with until the inspectors report and decision is issued at which point it is too late to point out their inaccuracies. I can understand someone making mistakes but we are talking about peoples lives and dreams here....

It's hard to keep the head above water these days but when this sort of carry on on going on then it's hard to see how anyone can countenance starting out a home build.

Any other ideas out there?
 
Hi,

I am a lawyer based in Cork. I am in exactly the same position as De Barr. I disagree with RKQ. Whilst ABP is supposed to make all decisions based on planning law the reality is that it is completely out of touch with the reality of rural Ireland and, if the Inpectors had a proper legal education, would not be so cavalier in certain opinions that they proffer. In my case a frivolous and vexatious objector appealed partly on the basis that I am "not from the area" which was a bare faced lie. I submitted to ABP. The County Development Plan changed 5 days before the Inspector's visit and the Inspector based her decision on the new Plan without affording me an opportunity to make further submissions as is both provided for under the legislation and would be required to ensure natural justice. It was a waste of time to judicially review as, as is my long and bitter experince both personally and with clients there was a "tag along" reason as well to scupper any chances there. The report makes it clear that no proper enquiries were made at all by the Inspector. Furthermore it is my view that when it comes to private residential one off houses the Board are a joke and just rubber stamp the Inspector's report.

I have again secured planning at local authority level and the objector will appeal again. I am procuring Counsel's opinion on the merits of my case under the new Plan.

I empathise with De Barr as I also have no home, am living with my sister, have ten acres of land and can't build on it due to this nonsense.

An Bord Pleanala are an utter disgrace when it comes to developments such as these and despite all the nonsense about judicial review this is simply not an option for the vast majority of people faced with such objectors who can hold people to ransom for the cost of an appeal.

The advice I can give is:

1. do not give up;

2. remember that it is a big wheel and it is always turning;

3. make sure every politician you meet hears your views on this issue.

M
 
MPOM, in terms of the rural quality of your 10 acres, had you thought to go back in with an "underground" house, just for the fun of it?

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/322550

Now I'm not suggesting you would do this exact design, and parked cars are a bit of a give-away, but they couldn't accuse of your bungalow blight and its so dramatically different from the previous one you'd at least get a hearing. Sometimes when they see you're persistent both planners and ABP respect that. Or not.

On your other points;

(i) producing Counsel's opinion will only be useful if you're going to Court on a technicality - otherwise it'll just annoy ABP.
(ii) merely having 10 acres of land doesn't automatically entitle you to build on it - that's what the development plan is for.

As a well-connected professional you have other options open to you, including lobbying your local authority and seeking to exchange your ten acres you apparently can't build on for say one acre with permission. There are always deals to be done on property exchange. And what about all these "ghost" estates - are there none near you with houses going for a nominal amount for the time being?

If you insist on building on this 10 acres of yours you need to engage a planning consultant from the outset and tailor your application to his advice.
Even then it'll be 50-50 but you'll have competent technical advice and a properly researched planning precedent file with which to sway the High Court.

ONQ.

[broken link removed]
 
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If you insist on building on this 10 acres of yours

why wouldn't he insist on building on his own land?
i know of a local farmer with 200 plus acres who objects to every new build around him on the principle that if they cant build they will be forced to sell sooner or later and he can aquire more land for himself.
 
forgotten said:
If you insist on building on this 10 acres of yours

why wouldn't he insist on building on his own land?
i know of a local farmer with 200 plus acres who objects to every new build around him on the principle that if they cant build they will be forced to sell sooner or later and he can aquire more land for himself.
Click to expand...

1. He can "insist" all he wants in fact every solicitor I've ever met can be MOST insistent... :)
But merely having a piece of land doesn't entitle you to build on it.

2. Development is defined as works on, under or over the land and is governed by law and regulation.
These days that regulation tends to support the public good as opposed to private need or ambition.
The public good is these days defined by sustainability, which means inter alia, living in more densely populated urban forms as opposed to one-off houses in isolation.

3. The farmer you mention is using the system to benefit himself as is a businessman's wont.
The fact he may enjoy success is as much a reflection of my second point as any competence of his at writing objections or appeals.

FWIW

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent persons should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at hand.
My best advice is that you should retain a competent building professional to advise you on these matters.
 
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