Advice required on summons for motoring offence

M

maria mathew

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I have been staying in Ireland from 2019 and today Garda came to my house for summon at the court.

They have asked me to present at court and offence is I was driving manual car without the license on 25th August 2023. Garda checking did happen at the mentioned date and place in the letter. I was asked to show license and insurance, I did not have insurance papers or license at that time. So the respective garda office asked me to submit it in next 30 days just the insurance paper as he did check my other national driving license.

Later on 26th August , I did submit my insurance papers in garda station . Garda office did not ask me to show the license at the time. Even when I submitted the insurance paper, the office of duty checked those and did not inform me that I was asked to submit the license as well. I do hold the learning permit issued on 18/07/2023 which establishes that I was allowed to drive on the day of incident which is 25/07/2023.

Also I did not receive any letters mentioning that I need to show the license as well. Now suddenly Garda came at my house and asked me to summon at court. Am in in legal trouble ?

Can you please advise in this situation ?
 
Yes you committed at least one road traffic offence.

If you were not accompanied by a properly licenced driver on the day you were stopped, you have committed the offence of driving other than in accordance with your licence. Your learner's permit means you must have an experienced driver in the car with you to supervise your driving.

I'm not sure about the insurance situation.
 
hello thank you for your reply. the letter did not mention about it at all, it mentions that I do not hold license at all which is not true. also i did had experience driver with me at time. i am asking for some genuine advise here , as I do hold valid license and the letter days I do not hold any kind of license at all
 
maria mathew said:
So the respective garda office asked me to submit it in next 30 days just the insurance paper as he did check my other national driving license.
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Am I reading this correctly that you presented the Garda with a driving license other than an Irish one at the time of the offence?

If so, was the insurance you were driving under issued on the basis of this license or your Irish learner permit? If your insurance was issued on the basis of the other license, then your Irish learner permit likely doesn't come into consideration.

You also mentioned an offence of driving a 'manual car', does the license you presented have a restriction limiting you to driving automatic cars?
 
There is a very easy solution here:-
1. Attend court
2. Show your driving licence to the judge.
3. Apologise for any inconvenience caused.

I reckon the judge will dismiss the case.
 
Leper said:
I reckon the judge will dismiss the case.
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We don't have clarity on which license the insurance was issued under, the OP has been online but has chosen not to provide that clarity for some reason.
 
i noticed taht when someone ask any quetion here, some people rather than helping just try to make sure OP is at the fault anyhow. I have been living here for more than 4 yrs, of course my insurance is on my irish driving license. I have that much common sense. I posted this as this incident happened in July and the application was made in October after almost 3 months and not even once I received any letter asking me to present my license when according to online goverment site you do get 8 days to prove that you have license and submit to garda station and yes before someone ask this quetion again, license is for manual driving
 
maria mathew said:
i noticed taht when someone ask any quetion here, some people rather than helping just try to make sure OP is at the fault anyhow. I have been living here for more than 4 yrs, of course my insurance is on my irish driving license. I have that much common sense. I posted this as this incident happened in July and the application was made in October after almost 3 months and not even once I received any letter asking me to present my license when according to online goverment site you do get 8 days to prove that you have license and submit to garda station and yes before someone ask this quetion again, license is for manual driving
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So the relevant type of license for your insurance is the learner permit.

Were you accompanied by someone who has held a full, valid driving licence in the same category for a minimum of two years?

Based on the information you've provided to date, unless you were accompanied by a person holding a full license issued more than 2 years ago, you are indeed in legal trouble.


How much trouble?
According to

Unaccompanied learner drivers - answers from the RSA

Answers to questions on the laws and penalties for unaccompanied drivers, driving on learner permits, driving sponsors, Clancy Amendment.
www.rsa.ie www.rsa.ie

In the event of driving unaccompanied:
You will receive two points and fixed charge of €160 applies when driving unaccompanied. This increases to four points if convicted in court, and a fine applies as determined by the courts. The owner may face a fine of up to €1,000 and have their vehicle impounded for allowing you to drive the vehicle unaccompanied.

Further down on the page I linked to you'll also find an explanation that even if you hold a full license from another country - if that country has not entered into an exchange agreement with Ireland and you hold and Irish learners permit - you are still required to meet all the conditions that apply to holding a learners permit.
 
Hi Maria,
I went to court for parking on double yellow lines. I tried to pay the fine but I left it a day or 2 late.
It got struck out on the day(cancelled) and I didn't have to pay any fine. Have your day out in court is my advice and talk to the judge.
Make sure to have all your documents with you.
And don't worry too much.
 
Leper said:
There is a very easy solution here:-
1. Attend court
2. Show your driving licence to the judge.
3. Apologise for any inconvenience caused.

I reckon the judge will dismiss the case.
Click to expand...

If it were me in this situation before going to court I would return to the garda station where I had produced the documents and ask them what exactly the summons is for. They can check their records and should be able to let you know what the problem is. Forewarned is forearmed. I certainly would not leave it till the court case.
 
It literally states on the summons what the offence alleged is. It's not rocket science. If the OP has a summons for having no driving licence and they feel they have no case to answer - as they were in possession of a valid licence at the time alleged, then they go to court and plead not guilty.
 
maria mathew said:
i noticed taht when someone ask any quetion here, some people rather than helping just try to make sure OP is at the fault anyhow
Click to expand...
Everyone is just trying to understand the situation and provide advice on the very limited information you provided. When you don't provide full information, people make assumptions. That's just human nature.


maria mathew said:
and not even once I received any letter asking me to present my license when according to online goverment site you do get 8 days to prove that you have license
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It is a legal requirement to carry a valid license with you when driving here, but you get 8 days to present a license when you do not have it with you when asked by a Garda. In this case, you presented the Garda with a driving license, so they had no reason to instruct you to present a license at the station.

Given your insurance is tied to the Irish learner permit, you should not have presented the other license to the Garda. When asked to present your license, it is the one you are driving under that you must show. You should have explained you did not have the valid license with you, then you would have been given time to present it at the station. When presented with learner permits, Garda have to take the details of that person accompanying you and confirm their license, that is now a challenge.

As Sue Ellen said above, if you can get to speak to the Garda in question before the court date, do so and present your license and the details of the accompanying driver, ideally bringing them with you hoping the Garda remembers them. If it goes to court, bring all docs and the person who accompanied you with their documentation.
 
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