No snowyb hasn't been on for a few years now. I think I was one of the last people to be pointed to the right plan for me. He was excellent and is missed.
But here is still a great place for information on health insurance.
Health Insurance Advice appreciated on 59 year old purchasing health insurance for first time.
- Thread starter faolteam
- Start date
But here is still a great place for information on health insurance.
Hopefully either the extremely knowledgeable and helpful @Starrynights or @Riomhaire might ramble across this thread 
and to confuse us even more the Citizens' Information website shows the following which confirms the max of 10 years @ 2%:
Private health insurance
Introduction to private health insurance and the rules that apply to insurance providers.
Lifetime community rating
Higher charges apply to people who are 35 years of age or older when they first take out health insurance. There is a 2% loading for each year over 34 years of age. So, for example, if you are 35 the cost is 2% higher than for a person aged 34 but if you are 44 then the cost is 20% higher (2% x 10).Early Riser
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I don't think it confirms that at all. It just gives the example of 10*2 = 20% loading for a 44 year old. But nothing beyond that.
In addition to the HIA here are some other references to the max of 70%:
"For example, if you take out a private health insurance policy for the first time at age 40 you will pay 12% (2% x 6) more than someone who took out their cover before the grace period expired. At 45, it would be 22% and up to a maximum of 70% at age 69. Under legislation, the loading cannot be waived by any insurance company and will apply every year for the rest of your life." https://www.inmo.ie/LifetimeCommunityRating
"Since the 1st May 2015 if you are over the age of 34 when you first take out health insurance, you will have to pay extra for your cover under the Lifetime Community Rating (LCR) loadings. It works out at an extra 2% of your premium for each year above 34, up to a maximum of 70%"
LCR | Lifetime Community Rating | Laya Healthcare Ireland
Learn more about Lifetime Community Rating & how it affects those over 34 taking out health insurance for the first time. Beat LCR loadings & join laya.
www.layahealthcare.ie
"Lifetime community rating is a system whereby the premium that individuals pay for health insurance reflects the age at which they take out private health insurance. Late entry loadings are applied to the premiums of those who join the health insurance market at age 35 or over.
If you are purchasing a private health insurance policy for the first time at age 35 years or older you may pay a 2% loading on top of your premium for every year you are aged over 34 up to a maximum of 70%."
What is the maximum Lifetime Community Rating (LCR) loading that applies?
Lifetime community rating is a system whereby the premium that individuals pay for health insurance reflects the age at which they take out private health insurance. Late entry loadings are applied...
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@Early Riser
Thanks for that, I get ya now But that would make a premium outrageously expensive @ 70% extra when the charges are high enough as they are already
Thanks for that, I get ya now
But that would make a premium outrageously expensive @ 70% extra when the charges are high enough as they are already Early Riser
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70% is a huge loading. But I suppose that the counterargument is that the 2% annual loading is necessary to incentivize as many as possible to join as early as possible. Otherwise there would be higher premiums all round, or the replacement of community rating with significant premium loading for all older members.Thanks for that, I get ya now
The bigger problem is the two-tier system generally. I would like to see a single system with compulsory insurance for all - subsidised on a sliding scale for those of lower means.
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Yes Snowyb was good last time we spoke (2000) he mentioned the layla Simply connect, ( Not sure if its as good as it was then as it is now )
IF im allowed say this was the response if anyone is over 59 first time quote , i did ring Vhi and Laya thought the VHI was extremely high Vhi Advance care expensive and there other recommendation was Company plan plus level 1.3 and Laya choice was Signify, Flex 500 Explore and Essential Health 300
IF im allowed say this was the response if anyone is over 59 first time quote , i did ring Vhi and Laya thought the VHI was extremely high Vhi Advance care expensive and there other recommendation was Company plan plus level 1.3 and Laya choice was Signify, Flex 500 Explore and Essential Health 300
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@faolteam something to keep in mind is given the loading, it probably makes more sense to go for policies with high excess - so you have to pay the first €X from your own pocket for an expensive hospital procedure or scan. Rather than going for a more expensive policy with a lower excess as you will be loaded on the cost of the policy.
Edit -
VHI plans noted are significantly more expensive than LAYA for similar cover. Their swiftcare clinics do seem to be better than LAYA though.
Signify looks like poor value, would need to be a lot cheaper for what it provides.
Flex 500 Explore is the cheapest and gives your the hospital cover you probably want for peace of mind.
Essential Health 300 seems like a decent hospital plan. And actually to contradict my above point while Essential Health is slightly more expensive than Flex 500 Explore, the lower excesses might work out as better value even with the loading applied.
It's complicated!
www.hia.ie
Edit -
VHI plans noted are significantly more expensive than LAYA for similar cover. Their swiftcare clinics do seem to be better than LAYA though.
Signify looks like poor value, would need to be a lot cheaper for what it provides.
Flex 500 Explore is the cheapest and gives your the hospital cover you probably want for peace of mind.
Essential Health 300 seems like a decent hospital plan. And actually to contradict my above point while Essential Health is slightly more expensive than Flex 500 Explore, the lower excesses might work out as better value even with the loading applied.
It's complicated!
Health Insurance Comparison Tool | HIA
Compare health insurance plans across a wide variety of providers in Ireland. You can also compare your current health insurance plan with other plans available.
www.hia.ie
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Yes. But I assume you won't need to contact him every year as you'll have a good idea what you want, can ring each provider asking for a similar product that's cheaper knowing what's important to you etc.
Starrynights
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Hi Faolteam,
Your situation is a little complicated with a quite a few things to factor in. I'll try my best to help.
Loading has already been mentioned, this will add 50% to your premium for 10 years.
Another is pre existing conditions. It's important to understand this definition. You can't claim for these for 5 years. Here is laya's for example:
Pre-existing condition: an ailment, illness or condition, where, on the basis of medical advice, the signs or symptoms of that ailment, illness or condition existed at any time in the period of 6 months preceding:
a) the day you took out a Health insurance contract for the first time;
or
b) the day you took out a Health insurance contract again after your previous Health insurance contract had lapsed for 13 weeks or more;
or
c) the day you changed your scheme and gained additional cover/benefits.
Our medical advisors will determine the onset date of your ailment, illness or condition in conjunction with your medical records. Their decision is final.
Essentially anything that can be medically traced back to existing within the 6 months prior to you taking out insurance is considered pre existing. It doesn't matter if you knew about it or not. In reality this means anything your gp or consultant wrote down in your medical notes that can be accessible by the insurer in the event of a claim. It's worth nothing the final sentence. "Their decision is final". Vhi is the only insurer not to state this and therefore could be considered to be the most lenient in this regard.
Taking both these factors into account and the fact you stated you are currently healthy ( which I imagine means your day to day claims are low) it would appear that perhaps the best of course of action would be to take a cheaper high excess plan. This would allow you to save the money up front and only in the event of a claim you could spend it on the excess then.
Something to note is that once a condition exists, you will be then subjected to a separate 2 year waiting period for hospital benefits if you were to subsequently upgrade your plan for this illness. For example your excess is €600 and you claim for a new condition. If you upgrade your plan to a €150 excess, the new excess will apply immediately for all new conditions after the upgrade, but the older €600 will still apply for 2 years after the upgrade for the pre existing condition only.
VHI 360 centres are the best urgent care offering on the market. They are definitely worth considering if this is an element of importance to you. However of the top of my head I would highly consider Laya plans in your case for the following two reasons. Laya plans tend to cover the most common orthopedic procedures without an excess, which given your age, may prove to be very worthy. Also Laya are the only insurer to usually allow you to upgrade your plan mid year, as long as the hospital cover is the same or above on the new plan. They are also the only insurer not to place an upgrade waiting period of 6 months for day to day cover at your age group. This means if you took a cheaper plan, then needed a lot of claims on day to day expenses such as consultants, physio etc you could upgrade with laya and claim straight away. With the other insurers you would have to wait until renewal and then a further 6 months after the upgrade.
Have a look at Laya Precision 600 Connect. The only downside to a cheaper plan is that cover in the so called "high tech" hospitals is more limited. It's only for orthopedic and cardiac. However you'd still have access to other hospitals in the Dublin region such as the hermitage and the sports surgery clinic. Hospitals that matter will depend on where you live. If you want to reduced the excess a bit look at Laya Precision 300 Connect. A plan priced in the middle of these from VHI is Enhanced care 350. It has a 40% shortfall for orthopedic procedure though.
If you need good day to day cover from the start then you would want a corporate plan, have a look at laya inspire. A corporate plan that also fully covers orthopedic procedures is more expensive again eg laya simply connect. However with loading this will cost a decent amount more over the 10 years so is only really worth it if you think you'll claim regularly enough over that period. Otherwise you might be better off putting aside the saved money and spending as needed, then upgrading as required and enduring the cost then.
Hope this helps.
Your situation is a little complicated with a quite a few things to factor in. I'll try my best to help.
Loading has already been mentioned, this will add 50% to your premium for 10 years.
Another is pre existing conditions. It's important to understand this definition. You can't claim for these for 5 years. Here is laya's for example:
Pre-existing condition: an ailment, illness or condition, where, on the basis of medical advice, the signs or symptoms of that ailment, illness or condition existed at any time in the period of 6 months preceding:
a) the day you took out a Health insurance contract for the first time;
or
b) the day you took out a Health insurance contract again after your previous Health insurance contract had lapsed for 13 weeks or more;
or
c) the day you changed your scheme and gained additional cover/benefits.
Our medical advisors will determine the onset date of your ailment, illness or condition in conjunction with your medical records. Their decision is final.
Essentially anything that can be medically traced back to existing within the 6 months prior to you taking out insurance is considered pre existing. It doesn't matter if you knew about it or not. In reality this means anything your gp or consultant wrote down in your medical notes that can be accessible by the insurer in the event of a claim. It's worth nothing the final sentence. "Their decision is final". Vhi is the only insurer not to state this and therefore could be considered to be the most lenient in this regard.
Taking both these factors into account and the fact you stated you are currently healthy ( which I imagine means your day to day claims are low) it would appear that perhaps the best of course of action would be to take a cheaper high excess plan. This would allow you to save the money up front and only in the event of a claim you could spend it on the excess then.
Something to note is that once a condition exists, you will be then subjected to a separate 2 year waiting period for hospital benefits if you were to subsequently upgrade your plan for this illness. For example your excess is €600 and you claim for a new condition. If you upgrade your plan to a €150 excess, the new excess will apply immediately for all new conditions after the upgrade, but the older €600 will still apply for 2 years after the upgrade for the pre existing condition only.
VHI 360 centres are the best urgent care offering on the market. They are definitely worth considering if this is an element of importance to you. However of the top of my head I would highly consider Laya plans in your case for the following two reasons. Laya plans tend to cover the most common orthopedic procedures without an excess, which given your age, may prove to be very worthy. Also Laya are the only insurer to usually allow you to upgrade your plan mid year, as long as the hospital cover is the same or above on the new plan. They are also the only insurer not to place an upgrade waiting period of 6 months for day to day cover at your age group. This means if you took a cheaper plan, then needed a lot of claims on day to day expenses such as consultants, physio etc you could upgrade with laya and claim straight away. With the other insurers you would have to wait until renewal and then a further 6 months after the upgrade.
Have a look at Laya Precision 600 Connect. The only downside to a cheaper plan is that cover in the so called "high tech" hospitals is more limited. It's only for orthopedic and cardiac. However you'd still have access to other hospitals in the Dublin region such as the hermitage and the sports surgery clinic. Hospitals that matter will depend on where you live. If you want to reduced the excess a bit look at Laya Precision 300 Connect. A plan priced in the middle of these from VHI is Enhanced care 350. It has a 40% shortfall for orthopedic procedure though.
If you need good day to day cover from the start then you would want a corporate plan, have a look at laya inspire. A corporate plan that also fully covers orthopedic procedures is more expensive again eg laya simply connect. However with loading this will cost a decent amount more over the 10 years so is only really worth it if you think you'll claim regularly enough over that period. Otherwise you might be better off putting aside the saved money and spending as needed, then upgrading as required and enduring the cost then.
Hope this helps.
Thank you so much for that info, so really what shines through is pat high excess and save a bit as well for an upgraded plan , many thanks
These are two with high excess. Both are Laya. One is Precision 600 Total for around €960 a month (before loading). The other is Precision 600 Connect for around €814 a month. Both have exact same cover except the Day to Day expenses differ. With the Precision 600 Total the outpatients (GP, consultant, dentist, physio etc) excess is only €1 before you can start to claim.
With the Precision 600 Connect even though it's €140 cheaper, you've to spend €450 on outpatients/day to day stuff before you can claim. And there's a bit less of that is covered also.
I think the Precision 600 Total is good for a first time person as it's the cheapest you can get, to still get your very good private hospital cover.
And you can claim a bit back on day to day expenses like GP, dentist, physio etc which psychologically helps to feel you are getting something!
I only know about Laya because we've had our insurance with them for a good few years now so I'm used to looking at the plans.
HOWEVER, if you live in Dublin then look carefully to make sure there is a Dublin Private hospital that is covered which would suit you. Ring Laya (or whichever Insurance company) to go through the plan in detail what is covered before you buy anything to make sure it suits your location.
www.hia.ie
With the Precision 600 Connect even though it's €140 cheaper, you've to spend €450 on outpatients/day to day stuff before you can claim. And there's a bit less of that is covered also.
I think the Precision 600 Total is good for a first time person as it's the cheapest you can get, to still get your very good private hospital cover.
And you can claim a bit back on day to day expenses like GP, dentist, physio etc which psychologically helps to feel you are getting something!
I only know about Laya because we've had our insurance with them for a good few years now so I'm used to looking at the plans.
HOWEVER, if you live in Dublin then look carefully to make sure there is a Dublin Private hospital that is covered which would suit you. Ring Laya (or whichever Insurance company) to go through the plan in detail what is covered before you buy anything to make sure it suits your location.
Health Insurance Comparison Tool | HIA
Compare health insurance plans across a wide variety of providers in Ireland. You can also compare your current health insurance plan with other plans available.
www.hia.ie
What's your main motivation for Private Medical Insurance?