Pat2
You seem to have an issue with the whole ideas of insolvency. I think my post was clear enough, Askaboutmoney.com posters on this forum don't even to seem to consider using the Irish route, if at all possible. The title of this thread indicates that failure.
There are plenty of reasons why the Irish system has failed: 2 off the top of my head:
1) In an IVA the secured lender has a veto, and the CEO of BOI has indicated that they will always exercise that veto
2) A UK bankruptcy is for one year and unless you mess around its straight forward. In Ireland its three years, and maybe three more or five or whatever the assignee feels like.
I don't have a problem with your view that bankruptcy is morally worng and that it creates a "a moral hazzar" but posting on this form with such a political view is unhelpful to those people looking for advice, help and a solution.
The Irish insolvency legislation has failed, look at the numbers on this thread.
Ger
Ger,
I believe everything you said in your post is wrong. I'm all for a bit of debate on these issues but please keep your assumptions about me to yourself.
On your points about how the Irish system has failed.
1. There is no such thing as an IVA in Ireland. The UK have IVA's as an alternative to bankruptcy. Secured creditors have an option to not be included which effectively gives them a veto without a vote.
In Ireland our closet equivelant would be a PIA. A secured creditor does indeed also have a veto here but only after a vote and if they have a sufficient percentage of the votes by number (possibly 50%, I'm not too sure)
2. The time for automatic discharge in the UK is 1 year. They can put an IPA/IPO for a further 3 years in place at any time during this year if your income exceeds reasonable living expenses. This happens in about 23% of cases of bankruptcy in the UK. The reasonable in the UK are less generous than the living expenses in Ireland.
In Ireland it's 3 years for automatic discharge and an IPA/IPO can last for 5 years.
What experts both sides of the water recommend is that if a IPA/IPO is unavoidable then enter it as early in the bankruptcy as possible. Bearing this in mind, to compare like with like it will be a total of a litlle more than 3 years in the UK and 5 years in Ireland. If you are based in Ireland at the moment you need to consider the 6 months or so it will take to establish your COMI in the UK. We're now down to 3.5 years versus 5 years. Not much of a difference considering all the hassle and expense of going to the UK.
One must also consider how long they will have to wait for a court date. In Ireland I believe that its a week or so wait for a court date once your documents are in order. I don't know how long it is in the UK.
Overall I believe the UK only offers a viable solution if you have a considerable warchest of £20k+ to see you through the moving fees, accommodation costs, adviser costs and some way to keep your income below very tight reasonable living expenses.
In Ireland you will get free advice and help if required. Plenty of government support if eligible and more generous living expenses. The possibility that you will retain your family home. Most importantly you will have the support of family and friends unless ofcourse you are lucky enough to have these support bases in the UK already.
Finally, on your assumption that I have a problem with insolvency and bankruptcy with may prevent people getting help on this website I refer you to my contributions to this thread.
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=182550
Please take the time to read the whole thread before making further assumptions.
In my opinion Irish insolvency legislation is just getting warmed up and there will many more cases as it becomes the norm in coming years. We may even see people being discharged earlier than 3 years, who knows.