3 mortgages, 2 rental properties, 1 family - what are the best options?

Miakk

Registered User
Messages
141
Personal details
Age: 47
Spouse’s/Partner's age: 42
Number and age of children: 2 (8, 4.5)

Income and expenditure
Annual gross income from employment or profession: €37,500
Annual gross income of spouse: €90,000 + potential moderate bonuses of up to €5k annually
Monthly take-home pay: (combined) about €6000

Type of employment:
Me: Public Sector, working job share (0.5 WTE, permanent post)
Spouse: Private Sector, full-time

In general are you:
(a) spending more than you earn, or
(b) saving? - making moderate savings monthly individually (about €300 each) and jointly (aim for €500, but some big expenses lately have made that difficult)

Summary of Assets and Liabilities
Family home:
recent valuation €1.1M, remaining mortgage €520k
Cash:About €10K - the majority of this is from previous Tracker Redress
Buy to Let Property: 2 - We each have properties that were originally our PPRs when we met - we are both "accidental landlords"

Family home mortgage information
Lender: KBC
Interest rate: recently fixed for 5 years @ 2.4%

Other borrowings – car loans/personal loans etc
Me: Car Finance €320 per month (PCP, finishing Jan 2023)
Spouse: PCP €450 per month.
(we need 2 cars)

Do you pay off your full credit card balance each month? Yes


Buy to let properties
Me:
Value: Property bought 2005 @ €248k, currently worth about €225k. Balance €145K with 18 years left.
Rental income per year: €12,000, in RPZ
Rough annual expenses other than mortgage interest : €2000
Lender: UB
Interest rate: Tracker mortgage of ECB+1%,

Spouse:
Value: Property bought 2005 for about €250k, currently worth about €170k. Balance €125k, 18 years left
Rental income per year: €10k , in RPZ
Rough annual expenses other than mortgage interest : €2000
Lender: UB
Interest rate: ECB +1.15%

Other savings and investments:
Do you have a pension scheme? Yes, we each have individual schemes
Me:
AVCs on top of Public Sector Pension, latter is based on final salary so my recent work situation will impact that.
I will also have access to small pension from 5 years of UK NHS employment and I'm making annual UK NI contributions to access a UK state pension also

Spouse: company pension + AVCs

Savings:
Altogether, currently about €40k (including some in children's names)

Other information which might be relevant
We have no childcare costs for the foreseeable future, thanks to my recent employment changes and WFH for spouse.

Life insurance: we have additional policies on top of our work benefits.
I also pay for separate income protection, about €60/month

We live comfortably but not excessively - max 1 holiday a year, don’t really eat out, careful-ish with weekly shopping, etc.
In general we are good savers and shop around for utilities, insurance etc at least annually.

I changed employment at the start of this year, from full-time at a high Health Sector grade, to part-time at the grade below. This has been great overall for our family and my own well being, but I feel cash flow is tight. I would hope to increase my hours up from half-time in a few years but grade progression is less likely, so I don't envisage any huge changes in finances on that front.

What specific question do you have or what issues are of concern to you?

Should we sell one or both of our rental properties, and if so what would be the best use of the capital that this would release?

Recent inflation & interest rate hikes, with more to come, have us concerned re the rental properties and what is best to do with them.
There are still almost 2 decades outstanding on the mortgages on each of the rental properties and although the current tenants are good and there are no active problems, the tax liability in particular feels like a big hit annually to cash-flow/savings - it's working out at about €6+k a year.
But we have 2 young children who we will need to finance for that same period of time also. By the time the rental property mortgages have been paid off, the children will hopefully have flown the nest, more or less.

The mortgage on our home is manageable, but we’ve had a number of big maintenance expenses recently and need more work done.
Another concern is our ability to remortgage given our other borrowings and my drop in salary - we did consider switching earlier this year but were told by one of the main high street banks that we would have to reduce/remove at least one of the car loans before we could be eligible. When my current PCP ends in January 2023, I fully intend to downgrade to a run-around vehicle and have no, or at least lower, car finance.

I also went through the whole tracker saga with First Active/UB for my rental property (tracker restored since 2018) so am quite “burnt” by that and I'm nervous about making another expensive mistake, especially with young dependents.

All advice from the AMA sages is most welcome!
 
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Other borrowings – car loans/personal loans etc
Me: Car Finance €320 per month (PCP, finishing Jan 2023)
Spouse: PCP €450 per month.
(we need 2 cars)

Altogether, currently about €40k (including some in children's names)

This is the most obvious thing which strikes me.

Are you paying interest on your PCPs?

1) Can you clear them and save interest?
2) Are you facing big final payments when the PCPs end? Is the €40k enough to clear them?
 
Buy to let properties
Me:
Value: Property bought 2005 @ €248k, currently worth about €225k. Balance €145K with 18 years left.
Rental income per year: €12,000, in RPZ
Rough annual expenses other than mortgage interest : €2000
Lender: UB
Interest rate: Tracker mortgage of ECB+1%,

You are getting €12k rent
You will be paying about €4k interest when ECB rates rise to 2%
You have €2k expenses
So it's making you €6k a year before tax.
That is not a bad investment.
If you sell it, you will have €80k cash to clear your mortgage at 2.4% , so you would save €2,000 a year in mortgage interest.

Don't forget that your monthly repayments include a big element of capital, so you are effectively saving this money.

So you should keep this.

If the tenants leave, then review the decision.

Brendan
 
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Spouse:
Value: Property bought 2005 for about €250k, currently worth about €170k. Balance €125k, 18 years left
Rental income per year: €10k , in RPZ
Rough annual expenses other than mortgage interest : €2000
Lender: UB
Interest rate: ECB +1.15%

Very similar to yours.
Rental income: €10k
Interest when ECB hits 2% €4k
Expenses: €2k
Profit: €4k

If you sell you will save €45k @ 2.4% or €1k
 
Buy to let properties
Me:
Value: Property bought 2005 @ €248k, currently worth about €225k. Balance €145K with 18 years left.
Rental income per year: €12,000, in RPZ
Rough annual expenses other than mortgage interest : €2000
Lender: UB
Interest rate: Tracker mortgage of ECB+1%,

Spouse:
Value: Property bought 2005 for about €250k, currently worth about €170k. Balance €125k, 18 years left
Rental income per year: €10k , in RPZ
Rough annual expenses other than mortgage interest : €2000
Lender: UB
Interest rate: ECB +1.15%
I would give tenants notice and sell up.

Reasons:
1) you're already cash flow negative and this will only get worse. You can't raise rents much and ECB rates will increase.
2) you have no CGT liability
3) one bad tenant would really mess you up financially
4) you'll walk away with maybe €120k after expenses. This will be useful if you want to trade up/renovate/make more AVCs.
 
Another reason for keeping your investment properties is that they are worth less than you paid for them.
So any increase in value up to the price you paid will not be subject to Capital Gains Tax.

If they recover to the price you paid, then maybe sell them.

Brendan
 
(b) saving? - making moderate savings monthly individually (about €300 each) and jointly (aim for €500, but some big expenses lately have made that difficult)

Don't feel that the only savings is additional cash added to your bank account.
You are saving every month by the capital repayments on your three mortgages.
So you are saving far more than you think you are.
 
This is the most obvious thing which strikes me.

Are you paying interest on your PCPs?

1) Can you clear them and save interest?
2) Are you facing big final payments when the PCPs end? Is the €40k enough to clear them?
Thanks Brendan,
Should be able to clear mine in Jan 2023, the strong value for second hand cars is working in my favour and will use the savings for any difference and trade down.
When my current PCP ends in January 2023, I fully intend to downgrade to a run-around vehicle and have no, or at least lower, car finance.
Will chat to other half re theirs
 
Overall, carry on as you are, but keep things under review.

If the value of your investment properties don't change, then every year your equity will increase due to capital repayments.

If things get more expensive after a few years with college fees for example, you should have plenty of equity by then and it may well be right to sell off one or both of your properties then.

Brendan
 
If you sell it, you will have €45k cash to clear your mortgage at 2.4% , so you would save €1,000 a year in mortgage interest.
Can I check where you get the €45k figure from? Property 1 value €225k, mortgage left €145 = €80k; is there a tax I will have to pay other than CGT (which would not be due as less than purchase price)

Another reason for keeping your investment properties is that they are worth less than you paid for them.
So any increase in value up to the price you paid will not be subject to Capital Gains Tax.

If they recover to the price you paid, then maybe sell them
I want to word this carefully to avoid a rule violation.... but things seem to be as good as they may be going to get for a while, part of the reason we are looking at options. I feel my property is better established than my spouses - a house vs a boom era apartment, although both in different regional towns - but values have never recovered back to pre-2005 levels.

Thanks so much Brendan!
 
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Are you sure the valuations for the rentals are accurate?

Most properties are now above their 2005 values.
Hi Sarenco,
Unfortunately yes, as coincidentally I just said to Brendan above (cross-post). Have based both on latest Property Price Register data for each estate/location. Nonetheless we are planning to contact Estate Agents for ball park valuations this week,
 
I would give tenants notice and sell up.

Reasons:
1) you're already cash flow negative and this will only get worse. You can't raise rents much and ECB rates will increase.
2) you have no CGT liability
3) one bad tenant would really mess you up financially
4) you'll walk away with maybe €120k after expenses. This will be useful if you want to trade up/renovate/make more AVCs.
Thank you NoRegretsCoyote, Points 1 & 3 in particular are resonating loudly!
We have both been lucky with tenants to date for the most part, but I had difficulty with a short tenancy that the management company handled well for me - I was still out of pocket to the tune of €1k + rent lost, all while I was on Maternity Leave. The stress!!
 
Can I check where you get the €45k figure from? Property 1 value €225k, mortgage left €145 = €80k; is there a tax I will have to pay other than CGT (which would not be due as less than purchase price)

Sorry, I must have looked at the figures for Property 2!
 
1) you're already cash flow negative and this will only get worse.

You have to be careful about this.

All "cash flow negative" means is that you are paying down your capital. If you were on interest-only, you would not be cash flow negative.

It's a bit like saying "My savings account is cash flow negative because I put €500 a month into it"

If you could not afford €500 savings I would not recommend you save that money.

And if you can't afford to pay the repayments comfortably, then I would suggest you sell the property.

But it seems to me that you can afford to meet the repayments, so keep at it.
 
All "cash flow negative" means is that you are paying down your capital. If you were on interest-only, you would not be cash flow negative.
I agree, but OP's circumstances are relevant here. Yes, they are paying down a lot of capital monthly on three mortgages. They have only a €10k cash buffer and are struggling to save. A rogue tenant would really mess them up.

In the short term on the trackers (and medium term PPR) they will be paying materially more on interest out of day-to-day income with very little scope to increase rents to compensate. That additional interest will not pay down any capital and will instead eat into lifestyle. 150bps on the trackers will be about €330 a month which is a lot of things to not spend money on.

There is a good case for selling one property so that things are more comfortable short term. The loss can be carried forward as well and offset against any potential CGT gain on the other. The other reason is OP hasn't specified but it looks like a large majority of their wealth is in Irish property. It makes sense to diversify a bit into global equities via pension.
 
In the short term on the trackers (and medium term PPR) they will be paying materially more on interest

Hi Coyote

I have allowed for this by doing my calculations based on ECB hitting 2% and it's still profitable.

Very similar to yours.
Rental income: €10k
Interest when ECB hits 2% €4k
Expenses: €2k
Profit: €4k

They have only a €10k cash buffer
Savings:
Altogether, currently about €40k (including some in children's names)

They have €40k so they could handle a non-paying tenant.

They are not struggling to save.
  1. They are paying big lumps of capital off all three mortgages
  2. They are paying AVCs
  3. They have saved €40k
  4. They have also had some big maintenance expenses recently
If they were, I would certainly agree with you to dispose of at least one of the properties.

She has taken a salary cut, so if they find themselves running down their €40k cash, then they should probably sell.
 
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The other reason is OP hasn't specified but it looks like a large majority of their wealth is in Irish property. It makes sense to diversify a bit into global equities via pension.

I had wondered about this.

Home: €1.1m
Investment 1: €225k
Investment 2: €170k

But selling say investment 1 doesn't help diversification that much. It reduces their exposure to property by about 10% of their portfolio, if we assume pensions worth about €500k.

And it releases only €80k of equity, which would probably be best used to pay down the mortgage on their home.

Brendan
 
By the way, it's quite a close decision.

In some cases it's clear that the person should sell or it's clear that they should not sell.

In this case, it's close enough. That is why I would say hold onto them until the tenant leaves and then review and probably sell. It's probably not worth the risk of a new tenant.

And keep the decision under review. If they are running down their savings to pay down the capital on the mortgage, then they should probably sell.

Or if there is a change of government, they should probably sell while they are still allowed to sell.

Brendan
 
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