Tenant wants to move girlfriend in - does this become a new tenancy?

[Arnie Hammer]

I am a landlord with two unrelated tenants in a two-bedroom property. One tenant has said he might want to move girlfriend in, other tenant is okay with the plan. My relationship with the tenants is good and I appreciate him coming to me early and being up front. The rental market is very tight and I'm sympathetic.

I would insist on doing it officially and adding the girlfriend to the lease, but not sure what happens here. Obviously we would amend the lease but for RTB purposes is it a new tenancy? Or just a change to an existing tenancy? I think a small increase in rent would be fair (maybe 5%) to account for greater wear and tear but again am not sure if this is permitted under RPZ rules (max I can increase is about 3.5%).

I am aware that if I refuse he could move her in anyway and I couldn't really prove otherwise...how to proceed?

 

[noproblem]

Personally I would certainly not allow it.
You let him move the GF in this week, you can't say you won't allow her move in a child or two next week.

 

[Sarenco]

Yes, it’s a new tenancy.

Whether, and to what extent, you can raise the rent depends on whether the property is in an RPZ or not.

 

[rob oyle]

Personally I would certainly not allow it.
You let him move the GF in this week, you can't say you won't allow her move in a child or two next week.

Maybe my parents misled me back in the day but I think it would take more than a week to bring a couple of kids into the equation!

 

[noproblem]

Maybe my parents misled me back in the day but I think it would take more than a week to bring a couple of kids into the equation!

You'd be surprised but quite lot of girlfriends have a wee toddler or two from another relationship. Maybe you didn't have all the chats you should have had with Mammy and Daddy.

 

[Arnie Hammer]

It's not really a case of if but how. Girlfriend is apparently moving to Dublin for a job. I will check employer references of course but in general three tenants are more likely to pay than two.

Thanks @Sarenco - I think I will insist on a new contract with the maximum rent increase allowed which is about 3.5%.

 

[cremeegg]

Surely if you have two unrelated tenants, you can charge a third the same as you are charging the two existing people. Of course if two are sharing a room, then a discount on that would be reasonable.

I doubt your tenant expected to move his GF in for free or for a token amount.

Or am I missing something.

 

[Clueless Clive]

Surely if you have two unrelated tenants, you can charge a third the same as you are charging the two existing people. Of course if two are sharing a room, then a discount on that would be reasonable.

I doubt your tenant expected to move his GF in for free or for a token amount.

Or am I missing something.

Don't know if I agree with charging anything extra. You're letting the rooms, not a PP service. If it was a 4 bed house with one guy living in it, you'd not reduce rent, so having 3 people in a 2 bed doesn't seem justifiable to increase it, but that's just my 0.02

 

[noproblem]

but that's just my 0.02

c

 

[Zenith63]

Don't know if I agree with charging anything extra. You're letting the rooms, not a PP service. If it was a 4 bed house with one guy living in it, you'd not reduce rent, so having 3 people in a 2 bed doesn't seem justifiable to increase it, but that's just my 0.02

Where do you draw the line though? If the tenants stick a few bunk beds in each room and invite their families to live in the house, still no increase?

The gf will be saving say €1000/month by moving in to this house and the wear&tear will increase by maybe 50%, seems reasonable to me the LL should be compensated for that.

 

[Purple]

Where do you draw the line though? If the tenants stick a few bunk beds in each room and invite their families to live in the house, still no increase?

No, you tell them that they are not allowed to do that.

The gf will be saving say €1000/month by moving in to this house and the wear&tear will increase by maybe 50%, seems reasonable to me the LL should be compensated for that.

Are women really that messy?

 

[Zenith63]

No, you tell them that they are not allowed to do that.

I'm not suggesting you would allow it, I'm just highlighting that it's not as black and white as you've rented out the house and it doesn't matter to you how it is used once you're being paid - as you've illustrated there's line somewhere on the continuum that each LL needs to decide on.

 

[Steven Barrett]

Where do you draw the line though? If the tenants stick a few bunk beds in each room and invite their families to live in the house, still no increase?

The gf will be saving say €1000/month by moving in to this house and the wear&tear will increase by maybe 50%, seems reasonable to me the LL should be compensated for that.

This happens all the time (not to that degree though. An older house has a dining room and it gets converted into a bedroom. Landlord is still getting their €2,500 for the house. Now the tenants have 5 people to split the rent instead of 4. Or when I've been travelling, it's how many can you fit in the house!!!

At the end of the day, the tenants themselves will want a certain level of space and comfort, so it will self regulate in that regard.

Personally I would certainly not allow it.
You let him move the GF in this week, you can't say you won't allow her move in a child or two next week.

She'll probably be there a lot anyway...sleeping over and all that kind of stuff

 

[cremeegg]

This happens all the time (not to that degree though. An older house has a dining room and it gets converted into a bedroom. Landlord is still getting their €2,500 for the house. Now the tenants have 5 people to split the rent instead of 4. Or when I've been travelling, it's how many can you fit in the house!!!

At the end of the day, the tenants themselves will want a certain level of space and comfort, so it will self regulate in that regard.

This is a pension experts view of the property rental business.

4 people living in the house or 5, sure what's the difference. An annuity or an ARF, sure don't they both pay out a few bob each month.

Letting residential property is not rocket science let alone pensions advice, but it does need to be taken seriously.

 

[Gordon Gekko]

I wouldn’t charge a tenant of mine any extra for moving a partner in.

I rent out property on a ‘per property basis’, not on a ‘per person basis’.

 

[cremeegg]

I wouldn’t charge a tenant of mine any extra for moving a partner in.

I rent out property on a ‘per property basis’, not on a ‘per person basis’.

If the property is let as a whole to two people, where each is responsible for the entire rent rather than each renting a room in a shared house, that is a different matter.

If a tenant is renting a single room in a shared house, then moving in another person is a significant matter.

 

[Sarenco]

If a tenant is renting a single room in a shared house, then moving in another person is a significant matter.

Nope.

If a property is the subject of a co-tenancy, then each tenant is jointly and severally responsible to the landlord for the payment of the rent.

The co-tenants could sub-let the property to another party with the consent of the landlord or they could allow another person to enter the property as a licensee. However, neither arrangement has any impact on the obligations of the co-tenants to the landlord.

Nobody rents a room in a shared house. The co-tenants jointly lease the whole house and they can decide amongst themselves where they sleep at night.

 

[Steven Barrett]

If the property is let as a whole to two people, where each is responsible for the entire rent rather than each renting a room in a shared house, that is a different matter.

If a tenant is renting a single room in a shared house, then moving in another person is a significant matter.

I guess I'm not the only non tenancy expert in this thread then...

 

[Arnie Hammer]

I rent out property on a ‘per property basis’, not on a ‘per person basis’.

I see the principle but I'm not letting four bare walls but an apartment with thousands of euros of value in furniture and fittings. I have a spreadsheet with ten years of tracking repairs and replacements. An extra body is going to add about 5% of the rent to my costs and I want to be compensated.

The co-tenants could sub-let the property to another party with the consent of the landlord or they could allow another person to enter the property as a licensee.

Could they do this without my consent though? My understanding was that they couldn't.

Nobody rents a room in a shared house. The co-tenants jointly lease the whole house and they can decide amongst themselves where they sleep at night.

That's indeed how it works now. The rooms are very different sizes and it's not my business how they split the rent between them

 

[newirishman]

I see the principle but I'm not letting four bare walls but an apartment with thousands of euros of value in furniture and fittings. I have a spreadsheet with ten years of tracking repairs and replacements. An extra body is going to add about 5% of the rent to my costs and I want to be compensated.



Could they do this without my consent though? My understanding was that they couldn't.


That's indeed how it works now. The rooms are very different sizes and it's not my business how they split the rent between them

5%? Why not 3%? or 15%?
Is it OK if the GF sleeps over one night a week? or two? if it is just two nights per week would you then add 1.42% to the rent?

Where do you think you want to draw the line until you charge extra?

I assume there's a 'not more than 2 people' clause in the rental agreement.