Are we taking uninsured driving seriously?

arbitron said:
The current system is like putting an extra tax on fruit and vegetables because other people eat too much junk food. Bizarre.
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Punishing the innocent has always been a key element of our governments' response to its many failures to enforce legislation and regulation.

(That's why we're paying for the repairs to all those mica houses!)
 
Marsupial said:
Punishing the innocent has always been a key element of our governments' response to its many failures to enforce legislation and regulation.

(That's why we're paying for the repairs to all those mica houses!)
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Well we can't punish those charged to policing and enforcing the regulations as they are State employees and so blameless no matter what they do (or don't do).
 
AGS simply never had, does not, and never will have an interest in roads policing.

Cops like to catch bad guys, not the tedious administrative process of ensuring cars are parked correctly, fully insured, etc.

I have long thought that a dedicated transport police reporting to the Minister for Transport is necessary.
 
arbitron said:
At a cost of €400,000 per offender with 50 nabbed per day that would be a major drain on the exchequer, never mind the bill for a brand new prison just for insurance dodgers.
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It would be money well spent - it wouldn't be permanent, as the number of offenders would drop over time - and that's before we consider the income the prisoners would generate working on the chain gangs!
 
And further evidence of the utter incompetence of our law makers and the consequences of poorly thought out legislation; from today's Irish Times:

Large numbers of disqualified drivers are still not surrendering their driving licences with their designated driver number, making it difficult for gardaí and insurance companies to determine that a ban is in place. That is according to the civil society group Parc which has compiled a league table of the number of disqualified drivers, by county, who have simply failed to hand up their driver numbers to the courts and return the licence to the Road Safety Authority (RSA).
Under normal circumstances a driver on being disqualified by a court, should produce their driving licence so its driver number may be noted by the court. The licence is then handed back to the defendant or their legal representative, to facilitate 12 day period in which an appeal may be launched.

However, the RSA has previously told the Oireachtas Transport Committee that to police such an arrangement, and to prosecute disqualified drivers for not returning their licences, the RSA would have to have staff in every court which deals with motoring offences.

Over the two year period 2022-2023, just six out of 232 drivers in Co Carlow surrendered their licences on being disqualified by the courts. The number was four in 2022 and this fell to two in 2023. Over the two years this represents a compliance rate of just 2.6 per cent.

In Dublin city and county there were 4,708 disqualification notices issued in 2022-2023 but just 154 people, or 3 per cent, complied with their legal obligation to send their licence back to the RSA.
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www.irishtimes.com

Large numbers of disqualified drivers still not surrendering licences, says road safety group

Data compiled by civil society organisation Parc shows widespread disregard of requirement by motorists
www.irishtimes.com www.irishtimes.com

I wonder is there even a penalty on the statute books for failing to surrrender one's licence? If there is, then I suspect that it has never been applied.
 
In this day and age, why on earth does anyone have to surrender their licence?. It's a plastic card. Surely, in the same way that there is a database on insured cars which the Gardai can access, there is also a database of licences and if the Gardai stop someone, all they should have to do is key the number into a portal and it says if the driver should be driving or not? or stick a QR code on new ones and all they have to do is scan it.

This licence surrender stuff is back in the Dark Ages in my view
 
Dr Strangelove said:
I have long thought that a dedicated transport police reporting to the Minister for Transport is necessary.
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We were close to that in urban areas with parking attendants who check parking compliance and can check registration numbers, NCT, tax, and insurance validity, and can clamp cars. I don't know if they can demand to see licence details. They messed all that up by employing the gurrier clampers from private industry.
 
Marsupial said:
And further evidence of the utter incompetence of our law makers and the consequences of poorly thought out legislation; from today's Irish Times:
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Times are getting slow, the Indo had that last week.

I don't see incompetence on behalf of the law makers here, there's a case for same against law enforcers, but as above, the Gardai have access to the database, so they no longer have to assume that a license presented to them is valid. Is there a consequence?
 
Leo said:
I don't see incompetence on behalf of the law makers here,
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Then permit me to explain.

As I quoted above "the RSA has told the Oireachtas Transport Committee that to police such an arrangement, and to prosecute disqualified drivers for not returning their licences, the RSA would have to have staff in every court which deals with motoring offences."

The law makers should have realised that unless the staffing of the RSA was sufficient to meet the above requirement, then the provision couldn't be implemented. And that, in my vocabulary, is incompetence.
 
thedaddyman said:
In this day and age, why on earth does anyone have to surrender their licence?. It's a plastic card. Surely, in the same way that there is a database on insured cars which the Gardai can access, there is also a database of licences and if the Gardai stop someone, all they should have to do is key the number into a portal and it says if the driver should be driving or not? or stick a QR code on new ones and all they have to do is scan it.

This licence surrender stuff is back in the Dark Ages in my view
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And did it strike you that, if the driver tells the garda that s/he hasn't got their licence with them, then the garda can't key any number into the portal and hence is unable to check whether or not they are banned or not? So what will happen - and happens on a daily basis - is that the driver will be instructed to present their licence in a Garda Station within 10 days and will then be able to continue on his or her merry way.
 
Marsupial said:
As I quoted above "the RSA has told the Oireachtas Transport Committee that to police such an arrangement, and to prosecute disqualified drivers for not returning their licences, the RSA would have to have staff in every court which deals with motoring offences."
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Why can’t the Courts Service collect this data and return it to the RSA?
 
Marsupial said:
he law makers should have realised that unless the staffing of the RSA was sufficient to meet the above requirement, then the provision couldn't be implemented. And that, in my vocabulary, is incompetence.
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Surprise surprise, the semi-competent quango that is the RSA suggest they should be the ones enforcing this and need more staff / money to do so. Law enforcement is a matter for the Gardai.


Marsupial said:
And did it strike you that, if the driver tells the garda that s/he hasn't got their licence with them, then the garda can't key any number into the portal
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Did it not strike you that they can enter the persons name as an alternative? They don't need the license number to confirm that or whether the driver has valid insurance.

Again, what is the consequence of not collecting cancelled licences?
 
Marsupial said:
And did it strike you that, if the driver tells the garda that s/he hasn't got their licence with them, then the garda can't key any number into the portal and hence is unable to check whether or not they are banned or not? So what will happen - and happens on a daily basis - is that the driver will be instructed to present their licence in a Garda Station within 10 days and will then be able to continue on his or her merry way.
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That's easily dealt with. It's a legal obligation under the Road Traffic act to produce your licence when asked for it by a Gardai. Pass a simple amendment to the act to remove the 10 days presentation piece and impound the car until a licence is produced. People will learn very quickly to carry it.

No reason why the Gardai also can't do a search on a persons name and address in this day and age
 
thedaddyman said:
Pass a simple amendment to the act to remove the 10 days presentation piece and impound the car until a licence is produced. People will learn very quickly to carry it.
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Or if you don’t have your licence on your person you have to walk home.

This is how it works in many EU countries.
 
It does amaze me sometimes what people get up to in their cars and the risks there willing to take
But at the same time wouldn't risk putting the washing machine on at night-time while sleeping ;)
 
Leo said:
Did it not strike you that they can enter the persons name as an alternative? They don't need the license number to confirm that or whether the driver has valid insurance.
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And did it strike you that uninsured and unlicenced drivers are unlikely to give the Garda their right name! :D

Indeed any keen student of court reports will see that giving a false name is frequently among the charges brought against these people.
 
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