Would you vote for a United Ireland?

Delboy said:

Irish really does seem to rattle certain people here. That's a major psychological study waiting to happen

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I agree.

We were 'taught' French at school. Out of 90 pupils in my year I know of 1 that lives and works using the French language. The other 89 just have to get by with English.
Yet, to my recollection, putting down the Irish language as 'useless' was common place, whereas French and other European languages was to be of benefit - clearly not.
The point of learning a language has been diminished to 'it will get you a job!'. Whilst employment opportunities are important, languages are a doorway to other cultures, offering differing perspectives and insights to the thinking of other peoples. Irish is no different. If anyone care to spend sometime (away from the trauma of school teachings) check out Irish place names and their origins to appreciate the eloquence in Irish language.

TheBigShort said:

I don’t disagree, but I think you will find that it is the Unionists that are politicising the issue, not SF. An ILA was agreed upon at St Andrews, the broad political spectrum across Ireland, North and South supports an ILA. There is a Gaelic Language Act in Scotland, a Welsh Language Act in Wales, An Official Languages Act in RoI, Irish is an official language of the EU, one of 24 official languages. SF, it appears to me, are simply requiring what was agreed to be implemented, to be implemented.

It is the obstruction of that implementation that is politicising the issue – in a normal society, it would be a no-brainer, legislation drafted, amended, put in front of select committee, amended again etc…etc…then put before parliament and passed – without fuss. Irish speakers can then get on with their business, non-Irish speakers can then get on with their business.

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B/S all that was agreed at St Andrews was that Government would pass an ILA. Everybody agrees with an ILA even the DUP, after all they signed up to St Andrews. The problem is that an ILA is as long as a piece of string. It could range from a timid Wales style arrangement which the DUP signed up for to a requirement that it becomes the first official language and every public servant should be fluent in it. SF pulled the plug on Stormont over Cash for Ash but that has lost its potency with time so the suspicion is they have wheeled out a wholly unrealistic ILA to replace that excuse. We will find out in time who has shown the bad faith over St Andrews.

Now we down here look with condescension on these petty squabbles up there. But how do you think we will react to the following situation? When Britain leaves the EU English will not be an official language of any member state. So at least some savings can be made in not having to publish EU legislation in English. Or will the Irish Government have the maturity to admit that we were only joking about Irish being our official language, we want to change that to English.

Duke of Marmalade said:

B/S all that was agreed at St Andrews was that Government would pass an ILA. Everybody agrees with an ILA even the DUP, after all they signed up to St Andrews. The problem is that an ILA is as long as a piece of string. It could range from a timid Wales style arrangement which the DUP signed up for to a requirement that it becomes the first official language and every public servant should be fluent in it. SF pulled the plug on Stormont over Cash for Ash but that has lost its potency with time so the suspicion is they have wheeled out a wholly unrealistic ILA to replace that excuse. We will find out in time who has shown the bad faith over St Andrews.

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This it the text from St Andrews

The Government will introduce an Irish Language Act reflecting on the experience of Wales and Ireland and work with the incoming Executive to enhance and protect the development of the Irish language.


It remains to be seen, how Acts that were introduced in Ireland and Wales without much fuss, can cause such a logjam in NI. You could be right, maybe it is SF demanding that all public servants be fluent in it (although that is not the experience of Ireland or Wales), or perhaps it is the mentality of ‘curry my yogurt’ or the cultural sensitivity of ‘Tuaisceart Éireann’ at a FIFA play-off draw in Zurich.

Your bet is with SF, mine is with DUP.

Duke of Marmalade said:

Now we down here look with condescension on these petty squabbles up there. But how do you think we will react to the following situation? When Britain leaves the EU English will not be an official language of any member state. So at least some savings can be made in not having to publish EU legislation in English. Or will the Irish Government have the maturity to admit that we were only joking about Irish being our official language, we want to change that to English.

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English is an official language of the Irish state. Section 2 of Official languages Act. Article 8 of the Constitution. It will also remain an official language of the EU.

The National Anthem "The Soldiers' Song" was written and copyrighted in English. How come we sing it is Irish?

TheBigShort said:

We were 'taught' French at school. Out of 90 pupils in my year I know of 1 that lives and works using the French language. The other 89 just have to get by with English.
Yet, to my recollection, putting down the Irish language as 'useless' was common place, whereas French and other European languages was to be of benefit - clearly not.

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I agree. I think it is bordering on pointless to teach any language in the way we teach them. They need to be taught as spoken languages and students need to be immersed in them for a good chunk of time.

TheBigShort said:

Why is a gaelscoil in Munster 'natural' and one in a border region, say like Donegal, a 'hi-jacking'? How can any Irish person hi-jack something that is already part of their culture and tradition and already belongs to them?

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Did I not say the school is just reflective of the area? The hijacking is more a risk at the political level.

Interesting asides - gaelic is the majority language on the Western Isles of Scotland (Outer Hebrides), some of which are strictly presbyterian - so the language does not need to be exclusive possession of one tradition. According to John Bishops latest show (one need look no further for one's worldview), there's an Irish language project in Sandy Row or somewhere like that - a real 'go figure' moment.

TheBigShort said:

English is an official language of the Irish state. Section 2 of Official languages Act. Article 8 of the Constitution. It will also remain an official language of the EU.

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Yes, it was a stupid point I made. Not original, I picked it up from some Fake News outlet, can't remember where, that's my excuse.

The founding fathers of our republic had the common sense to give both the English language and the English currency primacy in our affairs.

Betsy Og said:

gaelic is the majority language on the Western Isles of Scotland (Outer Hebrides), some of which are strictly presbyterian - so the language does not need to be exclusive possession of one tradition.

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Absolutely. Google Ulster Unionist convention of 1892 - God Save the Queen / Erin go Bragh.