qwerty-2023
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You might want to search Askaboutmoney for existing threads on such "lifestyling" and why many people advise against it.
- I'd invest in their global indexed equity fund for now and reallocate to lower-risk as I age
If they are indexed/passive funds then what management is involved? Just the actual tracking of the relevant indices?
- The investment managers are Irish Life but the funds are not the usual IL funds, they're designed(?) by the trustee company / IL just manages them
That seems a bit odd - can't you get any more detailed info?
- Main downside is the fund factsheet doesn't specific what index it tracks - financial advisor says "a variety of benchmarks, taking ESG into account"
I would be inclined to go for the lower cost option maybe subject to obtaining more info about the funds/indices tracked.What would you do? Is the lower cost and hassle "worth" picking the AVC scheme even if I don't understand it as well as a PRSA?
The difference in TER might be worth paying if the ILAC tracking error was greater than vanguard by that much (or of the index it tracks is a worse performer). I vaguely recall someone on here saying ILAC index tracking funds weren't great at tracking the index.You might want to search Askaboutmoney for existing threads on such "lifestyling" and why many people advise against it.
If they are indexed/passive funds then what management is involved? Just the actual tracking of the relevant indices?
That seems a bit odd - can't you get any more detailed info?
I would be inclined to go for the lower cost option maybe subject to obtaining more info about the funds/indices tracked.
0.28% difference in the AMC/TER may seem like nothing but it could have a significant impact on your returns over time.
Others may be able to clarify other possible pros and cons such as when you can retire/mature such an AVC versus a PRSA etc.
They should be able to tell you what it's currently invested in. If you have the fund factsheet, you should see what the breakdown of investment is, and the investment strategy. Unless it specifies a specific index, then it's not trying to track one.Main downside is the fund factsheet doesn't specific what index it tracks - financial advisor says "a variety of benchmarks, taking ESG into account"
financial advisor says "a variety of benchmarks, taking ESG into account"
The Irish life global equity funds tracks the MSCI world index per the fund factsheet on their website .
I don’t know of tracking error for Irish Life index fund but it won’t be as much as difference in TER so I would stay with Irish life for AVC
I have done the smallest bit of googling and have found a fund offered as a public service AVC through ILAC that seems to match OP's description: https://www.irishlifecorporatebusiness.ie/fund?SEGApologies I initially misread in relation to global equity fund
Irish like is used as fund manager by the majority of large company pensions . If the tracking error was more than difference in TER’s quoted they wouldn’t be used.
I was trying to give an advise to initial post based on what is known.
I think they definitely get business due to biggest , best well known.I have done the smallest bit of googling and have found a fund offered as a public service AVC through ILAC that seems to match OP's description: https://www.irishlifecorporatebusiness.ie/fund?SEG
It's 1%p.a. behind its benchmark.
Anecdotally, I have been told that a lot of MNCs establish pension schemes with ILAC because they have 'Irish' in there name, and lots of other companies just go with the largest player in the market.
I see from the factsheet that one of the top 10 holdings is ILIM. Are the fund managers investing in themselves?
Performance | 2017 | 2018 | 2019 | 2020 | 2021 | 2022 |
My AVC scheme | 8.71% | -4.43% | 29.67% | 6.37% | 29.76% | -12.58% |
Retail Irish Life fund | 7.87% | -5.10% | 28.68% | 5.55% | 28.81% | -13.24% |
Benchmark (same in both fact sheets) | 8.99% | -4.16% | 30.09% | 6.72% | 30.04% | -12.78% |
"Real" MSCI World | 23.07% | -8.20% | 28.40% | 16.50% | 22.35% | -17.73% |
Yes, as far as I understood from my chat with the financial advisor.If they are indexed/passive funds then what management is involved? Just the actual tracking of the relevant indices?
I'd say you're right based on my findings above. But the difference in performance is strange. The financial advisor had said the funds available in the AVC are not the usual IL funds available to the retail investor, but rather the trustees decide on an investment strategy and Irish Life are the company that the trustees chose to manage the investments. So maybe even though it's the same index, IL do a better job at tracking it because it's a different fund managed by a different team or...something? I don't know.I’d imagine these are not funds designed for these scheme but are a re-brand of existing Irish LIfe funds .
Yes that's also one of my considerations, though according to the AVC fund fact sheet, since launch (2005) the fund returned 8.73% per annum before fees vs. 8.91% for the benchmark which doesn't sound too bad. But again, I'm not sure what this benchmark is since it doesn't seem to track the MSCI World Index (or not closely at all) despite the "twin" retail version of my AVC fund saying that it's the index they track!The difference in TER might be worth paying if the ILAC tracking error was greater than vanguard by that much (or of the index it tracks is a worse performer). I vaguely recall someone on here saying ILAC index tracking funds weren't great at tracking the index.
The fund factsheet lists the investment style as "indexed" and the financial advisor told me all the funds in the AVC are passive/index funds. The fund objective is listed as "to perform in line with the benchmark index..." etc. so I'm confident it's passive. The fund description says: "This fund invests in global shares. The fund is fully invested in global companies domiciled in developed market countries. The Fund follows a passive strategy and the Fund Manager replicates the securities held in the underlying benchmark." Based on my findings above, it seems the index they track is the same as the indexed equities IL retail fund, though the AVC tracks it better for some reason, and I'm still not sure what this index is as despite saying they track MSCI, benchmark figures aren't close to MSCI at all. Very confusing altogether!They should be able to tell you what it's currently invested in. If you have the fund factsheet, you should see what the breakdown of investment is, and the investment strategy. Unless it specifies a specific index, then it's not trying to track one.
Thank you, I'll take that into consideration. I don't have a solid plan yet re: lifestyling etc, but I figure since I have 40 years until state pension age, for now I should just stick it into an indexed global equity fund and reassess in a few decades. But very open to advice and input here as well. The next most "risky" fund available is 60/40 equities/bonds which seems a bit bonds-heavy given my time horizon but I could be wrong.You might want to search Askaboutmoney for existing threads on such "lifestyling" and why many people advise against it.
PS: I am now guessing that the "variety of indices and ESG priorities" comment applied to the other fund options in the AVC (multi-asset funds with equities, bonds, etc. that also include ESG metrics) rather than to the fund option I was interested in - the global equities index fund, which doesn't include an asset type breakdown obviously, but also doesn't include ESG information, and seems to follow a single index as above.That seems a bit odd - can't you get any more detailed info?
Retail assumes a .75% AMCWhat's strange is:
- Performance differs between the AVC and retail fund, despite tracking the same thing with presumably the same methods
FX. You're comparing EUR return with a USD return.The benchmark differs a lot from the actual MSCI World Index, even though IL says that's what they're tracking! (Or did I get it wrong?)
Performance | 2017 | 2018 | 2019 | 2020 | 2021 | 2022 |
My AVC scheme | 8.71% | -4.43% | 29.67% | 6.37% | 29.76% | -12.58% |
Retail Irish Life fund (-.75%AMC for comparability) | 8.62% | -4.35% | 29.43% | 6.30% | 29.56% | -12.49% |
Benchmark (same in both fact sheets) | 8.99% | -4.16% | 30.09% | 6.72% | 30.04% | -12.78% |
"Real" MSCI World (now EUR version) | 7.51% | -4.11% | 30.02% | 6.33% | 31.07% | -12.78% |
No, that's inside a life company wrapper so you can't easily compare to benchmark.I have this fact sheet for the Vanguard fund (net of 0.9% AMC) but they report performance a bit differently which makes direct comparison difficult (annual returns are e.g. Aug 2022 to Aug 2023 rather than for calendar year 2022) and the fund was launched in 2018, so no earlier data
Performance | 2017 | 2018 | 2019 | 2020 | 2021 | 2022 |
AVC scheme (Irish Life indexed global equities) | 8.71% | -4.43% | 29.67% | 6.37% | 29.76% | -12.58% |
AVC benchmark (synthesised by Irish Life) | 8.99% | -4.16% | 30.09% | 6.72% | 30.04% | -12.78% |
MSCI World | 7.51% | -4.11% | 30.02% | 6.33% | 31.07% | -12.78% |
Vanguard fund | 7.47% | -4.16% | 30.03% | 6.32% | 31.07% | -12.79% |
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