Sounds very complicated. Maybe someone should draw a chart.No, it's not the same thing at all.
Guying stock in a company there or being a distributor for goods that are manufactured there is similar but buying oil isn't.
Yes, you could use your moral compass to navigate it.Sounds very complicated. Maybe someone should draw a chart.
Yes, we shouldn't be doing that.The Irish government encourages direct trade with these countries and enterprise Ireland brings ministers to head trade missions to the region. Trade relationships are not just tolerated, but actively encouraged.
The idea that young people are excluded from housing because of policy failures of the Irish government is nonsense. They are excluded because of global economic decisions which the Irish government has been relatively successful at mitigating.But young Irish workers, excluded from the housing market as a result if the policy failures of the same government, who seek to put a few quid together are morally reprehensible by comparison.
Well we are. In the circumstances, it’s unreasonable to assume that young workers should be any more informed or high-minded.Yes, we shouldn't be doing that.
Do you agree that people are more oppressed in many Middle Eastern Countries than black people were in South Africa during Apartheid?Well we are. In the circumstances, it’s unreasonable to assume that young workers should be any more informed or high-minded.
Maybe when you’ve successfully convinced the government to break economic ties with the region, you can turn your attention to educating young people on the evil they’re supporting by working abroad.
I wouldn’t have worked work in South Africa but that’s not the point.Do you agree that people are more oppressed in many Middle Eastern Countries than black people were in South Africa during Apartheid?
Do you think that it was okay to work in and therefore support Apartheid era South Africa?
That is the point.I wouldn’t have worked work in South Africa but that’s not the point.
Yes, and the line is blurred, but participating in and working for the oppressive regime is well over that line.Our current relationship with the Middle East is complex and measurable on a variety of levels. As you’ve alluded to, we all benefit to varying degrees from this relationship.
I agree.Dunnes Stores workers went on strike in apartheid times but I don’t see any similar outrage here in relation to anything that’s currently happening in the Middle East. There would be considerable scope to take a stand for anyone suitably motivated.
I don't see that the age, qualification or job title of the participant has to do with anything. Calling out active collusion with, and participation in, an oppressive State is not tut-tutting. I'm simply pointing out the moral choice such people are making. They are entitled to do so but it's not unreasonable to point out the moral implications of their choice.I think it’s a hideous place to live or even visit but why should our distaste for the region be necessarily channeled through a tut-tutting at the choices of young professionals who are just doing what economic migrants have done for decades.
Well everyone makes their own decisions based on their own morals.I don't see that the age, qualification or job title of the participant has to do with anything. Calling out active collusion with, and participation in, an oppressive State is not tut-tutting. I'm simply pointing out the moral choice such people are making. They are entitled to do so but it's not unreasonable to point out the moral implications of their choice.
I'm referring to anyone working there, whether they are professionals or not, but I suppose everyone seems to be a professional nowadays.Well everyone makes their own decisions based on their own morals.
I just don’t agree that the actions of working professionals should the focus when there is so much more the rest of us could be doing in protest, either collectively or as individuals, if we were suitably motivated.
Well, off the top of my head, we could organise a boycott of Sky TV until they drop coverage of F1 races in the region?????There's actually now much we can do, other than choose not to directly participate.
You can choose not to subscribe to sky sports but what we're talking about would be someone who was working for a company in the region which was involved in the races in the region and was not paying income tax because of the exploitative system of government in their chosen country of residence.Well, off the top of my head, we could organise a boycott of Sky TV until they drop coverage of F1 races in the region?????
You neither what?Nah, me neither.
What about the migrant workers from Bangladesh and other countries who built the World Cup stadiums and who doubtless do other low paid work that contributes to the economic well being of their host country.You can choose not to subscribe to sky sports but what we're talking about would be someone who was working for a company in the region which was involved in the races in the region and was not paying income tax because of the exploitative system of government in their chosen country of residence.
You neither what?
Your contention seems to be that because there is no clear line that removes any and all moral culpability from those who choose to work in and directly profit from deeply unjust and repressive States. I disagree.
The people at the bottom rarely benefit from their own exploitation. I'm unaware of any Irish people taking those jobs. If they weren't being exploited and there was a decent social infrastructure in place then the highly paid Irish would have to pay some income tax. They aren't paying any because such a social infrastructure isn't in place.What about the migrant workers from Bangladesh and other countries who built the World Cup stadiums and who doubtless do other low paid work that contributes to the economic well being of their host country.
Are they equally reprehensible or do they get a pass because their working conditions are reportedly so poor?
Or it just that people shouldn’t be happy to work there?
If people are able to engage in the moral contortionism which justifies participating in and benefitting from that exploitation then that's their own business but in my opinion it is a despicable and reprehensible thing to do.Not only are their working conditions poor, but they are also lethal.
This report is two years old, but I have read nothing to indicate working conditions are any better for migrant workers.
Dying to keep families at home alive is not too dramatic a headline.
Revealed: 6,500 migrant workers have died in Qatar since World Cup awarded
Guardian analysis indicates shocking figure over the past decade likely to be an underestimatewww.theguardian.com
My point is that migrants traditionally move for economic reasons - to attain an income that wouldn’t be attainable at home.The people at the bottom rarely benefit from their own exploitation. I'm unaware of any Irish people taking those jobs. If they weren't being exploited and there was a decent social infrastructure in place then the highly paid Irish would have to pay some income tax. They aren't paying any because such a social infrastructure isn't in place.
Yep, it's an appalling country where the weak and vulnerable are exploited. People from rich countries who go to work there are doing so in order to benefit from the exploitation of others.My point is that migrants traditionally move for economic reasons - to attain an income that wouldn’t be attainable at home.
Just because the paddies aren’t working at the level of World Cup stadium workers doesn’t mean it’s all sunshine and roses. Have a read of this from a few years ago to see how exposed ‘normal’ workers really are. https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/johann-hari/the-dark-side-of-dubai-1664368.html
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