Will the government raid people's pension funds again for COVID-19 and can anything be done to stop them?

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PaxmanK

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So I was talking to a couple of friends about this in our new weekly hangouts meetups :)
All the cool kids are doing it these days. Since all of us are at or near middle aged, depending on your definition, we were quite chuffed with ourselves. Mighty craic.

Anyway pension funds came up and the effect of COVID-19 on it.
One person (well more than one, but one in particular I am talking about here) in our group had a very strong opposition to locking money away into a pension fund where the government can take what they want out of it but he cant. Its been done before, and we have all talked about it before. Now it was a significant amount before when they raided it, but they made back that money from growth. Would have made far more if it hadnt been raided to be fair.

I'll start a new paragraph because I am rambling on.
This person only recently started contributing to his pension again. It took him a long time to get over the last government raid on his pension.
Now he is convinced that they can come in and take what they like and there is nothing he can do to stop it. They can take 0.05% per year or they can take 10% per year.
Nothing to stop them. So how can you protect your pension, which you spent many years saving and planning for but is now up for grabs?
This person has stopped contributions. They are not the only one. But how can you protect the fund now?
This government have form on this. They raided pension funds before. Its part of the reason I would never vote FG again to be honest with you.
 
Hmmm PaxmanK - must have been something over the w'end in relation to such as I too, having an online catch up with some friends, had a similair conversation. There is no reason why the powers to be, wouldn't / couldn't raid the "nest egg" , i.e the pension pot, again.

Also, there is nothing stopping them from dipping into people's savings either - all for the "general good".
 
Ask Eddie Hobbs - He's good at giving advice about "loaning" pension funds to the government.
 
NoRegretsCoyote said:
Really? The levy took (cumulatively) less than 3% of his fund by value between 2011 and 2015.

The MCSI all-world index grew 75% between mid-11 and mid-15.
Click to expand...

So they took over 2.5% of people pension contributions then.

I hate that argument. Its total nonsense and does not change the fact that they took money form a persons pension fund.
The fact that their pensions funds grew anyway has nothing at all to do with them TAKING money from them.
Thats like you taking a tenner from my bank account and telling me that it grew anyway so you were ok to take it.

If people seethe government raiding their pension funds AGAIN how to you think Joe public will see contributing to pensions in future.
Sure you can always tell him it will grow by more than they take, so its fine when they take it. See what he thinks.
 
PaxmanK said:
I hate that argument. Its total nonsense and does not change the fact that they took money form a persons pension fund.
Click to expand...

Of course it's a spurious argument. I made it only in response to the dubious claim that the OP's friend had struggled to make up the difference.

It was simply a TAX and, sadly, a tax can be levied on anything at any time and there is nothing you can do about it.
 
Right, that’s it. The Government took 2.5% of my pension fund during the greatest financial crisis that the world ever faced. I’m never gonna put another cent into my fund again. I’ll be drinking Lidl gin in retirement in a mobile home down in Courtown. That’ll teach them.
 
The pension levy pales into insignificance compared with the increases in direct taxation (income tax increases, introduction of USC), DIRT/exit tax and CGT rate.

Avoiding pensions due a fear of another pension levy seems daft to me.
 
The Government will do anything it gets no pushback against.
For instance they announced the Covid 19 payment will be available to all illegal immigrants in the state (estimate more than 30,000).
Revenue confirm details will not be passed to the Department of Justice.

So expect, imo, PAYE and pensions to get lynched again to pay for everything.
 
dubman1 said:
For instance they announced the Covid 19 payment will be available to all illegal immigrants in the state (estimate more than 30,000).
Revenue confirm details will not be passed to the Department of Justice.
Click to expand...
hard to believe. not sure how to react to this. what are we at as a country doing that ?
 
dubman1 said:
For instance they announced the Covid 19 payment will be available to all illegal immigrants in the state (estimate more than 30,000).
Revenue confirm details will not be passed to the Department of Justice.
Click to expand...

Can you provide a link to evidence of this?
 
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PaxmanK said:
This person only recently started contributing to his pension again. It took him a long time to get over the last government raid on his pension.
Now he is convinced that they can come in and take what they like and there is nothing he can do to stop it. They can take 0.05% per year or they can take 10% per year.
Nothing to stop them. So how can you protect your pension, which you spent many years saving and planning for but is now up for grabs?
This person has stopped contributions. They are not the only one. But how can you protect the fund now?
This government have form on this. They raided pension funds before. Its part of the reason I would never vote FG again to be honest with you.
Click to expand...

The pension levy tax was 0.75% but on the other hand tax relief on pension contributions is 20% , or 40% for high earners.
 
Lisboa said:
The pension levy tax was 0.75% but on the other hand tax relief on pension contributions is 20% , or 40% for high earners.
Click to expand...

A good pension system should be what is known as EET: contributions Exempt, returns Exempt, and drawdowns Taxed. So you are only taxing once.

The 2011-15 levy on pension assets made Ireland's system (for a while) ETT. Making contributions taxable on the way in, during, and on the way out (TTT) would be madness as you would be taxing three times.
 
dubman1 said:
For instance they announced the Covid 19 payment will be available to all illegal immigrants in the state (estimate more than 30,000).
Revenue confirm details will not be passed to the Department of Justice.
Click to expand...
24601 said:
Can you provide a link to evidence of this?
Click to expand...

I doubt they actually said that word for word, more a case of they don't have time to check every applicants background to see if they have an eligible visa.

Not just illegal immigrants, but also foreign students who are only allowed to work 20 hours per week, likely on minimum wage or thereabouts, who, when working, would actually be earning less than the 350 a week which the Covid payment is now paying them.
 
Ok, So the answer is that the government can raid your pension for as much as they like and it is locked away from you, but they have full access.

And people are pointing out something along the lines of "If I take money from your bank account that you have saved, it doesnt matter, because you'll be saving more anyway in the future to make it up, so you wont notice".

If they raid pensions again, people will only remember that they did it now twice on the bounce. It doesnt matter how you justify what they are taking or if you consider a few thousand small or big. The problem is that your money is locked away from you and they can take it as they please.
Thats just not good, no matter how you cut it.
 
Lisboa said:
I doubt they actually said that word for word, more a case of they don't have time to check every applicants background to see if they have an eligible visa.

Not just illegal immigrants, but also foreign students who are only allowed to work 20 hours per week, likely on minimum wage or thereabouts, who, when working, would actually be earning less than the 350 a week which the Covid payment is now paying them.
Click to expand...

From the Department of An Taoiseach ,
''Government agrees next phase of Ireland’s Covid-19 response
Published: 9 March 2020
.... to lead a joint national communications effort focused on employers and employees (including vulnerable workers, migrant workers and undocumented workers) ..''

and from a solicitors ,McGrath McGrane website below.


''''''
Undocumented and Pandemic Unemployment Payment
If you are undocumented but do have a PPS number and have lost your job as a result of Covid-19, you can get the new Pandemic Unemployment Payment.

Gov.ie - COVID-19 Pandemic Unemployment Payment

A payment to support employees and self-employed people who are unemployed or who have their hours of work reduced during the COVID-19 (Coronavirus) pandemic.
www.gov.ie www.gov.ie
....''


and also from NASC website the following:

''''
Pandemic Unemployment Payment and undocumented workers
We have received confirmation that people who are currently undocumented will be considered eligible for pandemic unemployment payments provided that they have a PPSN. The information will not be shared with the Department of Justice.
Likewise, anyone who is undocumented and who believes that they have COVID-19 symptoms can engage with health services without concern about their immigration status.....''
 
dubman1 said:
The Government will do anything it gets no pushback against.
For instance they announced the Covid 19 payment will be available to all illegal immigrants in the state (estimate more than 30,000).
Revenue confirm details will not be passed to the Department of Justice.

So expect, imo, PAYE and pensions to get lynched again to pay for everything.
Click to expand...

They know what angry, s up the media and what doesn't
 
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