Why (the state) bailing out housing market is a bad idea..mcwilliams indo article

Re: Why bailing out housing market is a very bad idea

MrMan said:

To rent you can deduct the following expenses that buying entails: transaction fees, furnishing, house insurance, life assurance, bin collection, maintenance fees, replacement of goods. On top of expenses renters have more freedom of movement. Buying provides security and a sense of home but it definitely isn't cheaper in the short/medium term, so there definitely always was and still is a choice.

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In the context of discussion I thought it was obvious that renting means renting your home - ,like forever - as opposed to owning your home. Reference to short term renting is something different and does not belong in this discussion.

I do not know any working Irish person who does not aspire to owning their own home.
Again - Irish people own our homes. We do not rent.

Nor - controversial as it may sound - is any working Irish person going to consider an appartment in a block as a suitable place to raise a family. it will never be a home. We are not programmed that way. We do not live in boxes in the sky. We're not made that way. Not gonna happen.

And This post will be deleted if not edited immediately we have 6 million people (counting the north) living in a huge country. Space to build should never be an issue. lLnd price should never be an issue. Theres loads of it.

Re: Why bailing out housing market is a very bad idea

aircobra19 said:

benevolent? Have you seen the state of the health service?



It was never cheaper to buy somewhere than rent a room. You also have to consider the cost of maintaining a property, furnishing, cookers, fridges. The cost of credit, the interest on a mortgage over the term.



Buy buy buy. Why why why?

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begining to think all the people who think renting is a real choice as opposed to owning a home, are single. different mindset involved there.

Re: Why bailing out housing market is a very bad idea

sfag said:

begining to think all the people who think renting is a real choice as opposed to owning a home, are single. different mindset involved there.

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I assume (because you don't explain your point) that your comment is in reference to my "single room" comment. I only mentioned that as an example of a small unit to rent. You might have 2 or 3 people in a room. I know one person, his wife and their toddler who are living in a one roomed bedsit/studio. He choose that over a 3 bed house further out because he didn't want to commute. Hes 5 mins walk from his work. I know someone else who is single who rents a 3 bed house on their own.

Re: Why bailing out housing market is a very bad idea

sfag said:

....Again - Irish people own our homes. We do not rent.

Nor - controversial as it may sound - is any working Irish person going to consider an appartment in a block as a suitable place to raise a family. it will never be a home. We are not programmed that way. We do not live in boxes in the sky. We're not made that way. Not gonna happen. ...

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Funny theres lots of Irish people do exactly that in America or London or in other countries.

Re: Why bailing out housing market is a very bad idea

[broken link removed]

a work in progress at the mo, basically trying to get a lobby/public awareness group going to protest against this possibility. I think a few people from the pin are behind it

EDIT: LInk fixed

Re: Why bailing out housing market is a very bad idea

That link doesn't work for me.

Re: Why bailing out housing market is a very bad idea

aircobra19 said:

Funny theres lots of Irish people do exactly that in America or London or in other countries.

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Yeah but I am sure they would prefer to live in a house...

Re: Why bailing out housing market is a very bad idea

Teabag said:

Yeah but I am sure they would prefer to live in a house...

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They still do it which was the point.

Re: Why (the state) bailing out housing market is a bad idea..mcwilliams indo articl

Tell everyone you know not to buy into Glenkerrin and McNarama deal with 15% interest free loan! The only thing the consumer should accept from Ray Grahan and his Ilk is a slashing of prices end of story -This is just another attempt to prop up a falling market!

Re: Why (the state) bailing out housing market is a bad idea..mcwilliams indo articl

i agree....its a cheap con,and people wont fall for it........they will try anything rather than drop their prices!

Re: Why (the state) bailing out housing market is a bad idea..mcwilliams indo articl

starlite68 said:

i agree....its a cheap con,and people wont fall for it........they will try anything rather than drop their prices!

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Did I not read that they had a very good weekend for sales so some people obviously did fall for it!

Re: Why (the state) bailing out housing market is a bad idea..mcwilliams indo articl

Sunny said:

Did I not read that they had a very good weekend for sales so some people obviously did fall for it!

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... only if you assume that their PR company had absolutely nothing to do with the placing of that "story"

Lou Reed again...

Don’t believe half of what you see and none of what you hear

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Re: Why (the state) bailing out housing market is a bad idea..mcwilliams indo articl

ubiquitous said:

... only if you assume that their PR company had absolutely nothing to do with the placing of that "story"

Lou Reed again...

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I assumed that. I also assumed that there are people out there who would fall for this scheme just like they fell for 100% mortgages so it wouldn't surprise me if they did sell more apartments last weekend than they did in the previous 6 months.

Re: Why (the state) bailing out housing market is a bad idea..mcwilliams indo articl

just like they fell for 100% mortgages

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People didn't fall for 100%, there was no con.

Re: Why (the state) bailing out housing market is a bad idea..mcwilliams indo articl

Sunny said:

I also assumed that there are people out there who would fall for this scheme just like they fell for 100% mortgages

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What bank is going to lend to them?

Re: Why (the state) bailing out housing market is a bad idea..mcwilliams indo articl

MrMan said:

People didn't fall for 100%, there was no con.

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yes there was. People were conned into a mentality of 'don't miss the boat, get on the ladder before its too late' even in late 2006 when average prices were approaching 10x the average wage (against a historical norm pre bubble of 4 or 5x). House prices rose to such idiotic levels that if prudent lending criteria were adherred to the man on the street couldn't get a mortgage. Now comes Mr Banker with a sweet deal.

No deposit? No problem we'll give you 100%, don't worry about the risk, property prices only ever go up.

conveniently forgetting to tell the buyer of the massive risk of automatic negative equity, the fact that they needed what was historiclly a 'non normal' mortgage term to afford to pay it back, the fact that this might not turn out to be their starter home but a show box negative equity trap they wouldn't be able to sell (without taking a significant haircut in the process)

Now I fully expect you to come along with your usual 'no one forced them' rubbish, but in reality people felt backed into a corner and took up Mr Banker on his reasonable offer. Amidst a mass frenzy of VI led propaganda, they were led to believe that this was the only way to 'get on the ladder' and eventually find their way to their dream home less than 30 miles from where they actually work.

Re: Why (the state) bailing out housing market is a bad idea..mcwilliams indo articl

Jethro Tull said:

yes there was. People were conned into a mentality of 'don't miss the boat, get on the ladder before its too late' even in late 2006 when average prices were approaching 10x the average wage (against a historical norm pre bubble of 4 or 5x). House prices rose to such idiotic levels that if prudent lending criteria were adherred to the man on the street couldn't get a mortgage. Now comes Mr Banker with a sweet deal.

No deposit? No problem we'll give you 100%, don't worry about the risk property prices only ever go up.

conveniently forgetting to tell the buyer of the massive risk of automatic negative equity, the fact that they needed what was historiclly a 'non normal' mortgage term to afford to pay it back, the fact that this might not turn out to be their starter home but a show box negative equity trap they wouldn't be able to sell (without taking a significant haircut in the process)

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The 100% was offered by banks but there was no hiding of facts. It is up to responsible adults to assess the pros and cons of any deal especially one of the magnitude of purchasing a property. To suggest con is like saying that anyone who took a 100% mortgage was ripped off, but all of the market knowledge available was there for them as much as everyone else.

Re: Why (the state) bailing out housing market is a bad idea..mcwilliams indo articl

MrMan said:

The 100% was offered by banks but there was no hiding of facts. It is up to responsible adults to assess the pros and cons of any deal especially one of the magnitude of purchasing a property. To suggest con is like saying that anyone who took a 100% mortgage was ripped off, but all of the market knowledge available was there for them as much as everyone else.

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we've been through this 'its up to the individual' argument before so I won't comment further

Re: Why (the state) bailing out housing market is a bad idea..mcwilliams indo articl

MrMan said:

People didn't fall for 100%, there was no con.

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Wasn't suggesting 100% mortgages was a con. And neither is this loan offer from developers. Doesn't make either product a good idea though and plenty of people took advantage of 100% mortgages and I would imagine that there will be some people who will take advantage of this as well.

Re: Why (the state) bailing out housing market is a bad idea..mcwilliams indo articl

ubiquitous said:

What bank is going to lend to them?

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Why wouldn't a bank lend to them? Similar products to this have been used in the past by companies and it is also popular in the UK. I know of at least one Irish university that offers or at least did offer the same facility to staff but they did charge interest. The bank still retains first charge on the property and are lending at 70-85% LTV so I don't see the problem for them.