Why I'm in favour of a properly constituted property tax

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Isn't stamp duty currently just 1%? It has already been significantly reduced.
 

Believe me, I have read the Commission report.

Revenue have a major input into the annual Budget, Finance Bill & Finance Act. The tax code changes almost on a daily basis with endless eBriefs and updates all from Revenue. They surely don't need a Commission to test or come up with new ideas?

The idea of the State basing its property tax on valuations provided by the auctioneers is laughable. These lads have a total vested interest in overvaluing property, as they typically charge % fees on transactions.

And yes I do hold auctioneers and valuers at least partly to blame for the excesses of the bubble years. They didn't mind pillorying those who disagreed with their snakeoil pronouncements of the era - "property never falls in value", "there is a national shortage of houses", "if you don't get on the property ladder now, you'll be left behind" etc etc etc
 
Purple said:
1) A property tax, if properly constituted, provides a stable income stream for the state. My preference is a system based on the site value.
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Who, if any, would you exempt from paying the property tax?
 
Just had a fleeting look at a newspaper while out shopping and it said that the database for for national house sales will be ready at the end of Sept and this will be used to set the value of the house for the property tax.

It will be using house sale prices from 2010 onwards . This is not logical because one house on an estate could be wrecked or be a quick sale and go for 80,000 and the nice house down the road could have sold for 120,000, and how many houses have actually sold since 2010 .
Can't remember what paper it was but if anyone has a link. Oh it also said that it would not favour using valuers as they would be open to under valuing the house .
Jeez and i had my brown envelope ready
 
From recent reports the property tax will be (1) based on ability to pay and (2) taken from people's wage packet.
Isn't this just another form of income tax?
Why not just increase income tax and cut out the mess that is inevitebly going to come with administering a property tax?
 

I agree. Also raises a huge number of questions around how they are going to link an individual to a particular address and that address to a wage packet. And what about people who dont have jobs but are not on social welfare either?
 
reddanmm said:
Just had a fleeting look at a newspaper while out shopping and it said that the database for for national house sales will be ready at the end of Sept and this will be used to set the value of the house for the property tax.
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I found this

About time there was a register of house prices. However, the market has been so depressed that there will be huge sections and estates not covered in this (only goes back 2 years).

Also agree that due to upgrade, extension, etc, one house in an estate could be worth a lot less than another so lets hope the lower priced stuff got listed.
 
Shawady said:
Why not just increase income tax and cut out the mess that is inevitebly going to come with administering a property tax?
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+1

Cut the annual Personal Tax Credit by €x. (If they want to widen the tax base beyond income tax payers, apply an appropriate deduction to state pensions & benefits.) Problem solved in 5 minutes.
 
Shawady said:
Isn't this just another form of income tax?
Why not just increase income tax and cut out the mess that is inevitably going to come with administering a property tax?
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I suppose the difference is that the property tax will only be levied on house owners and not on tenants.

I would remove the exemptions enjoyed by Local Authorities, Housing Charities etc.

I dont think much thought has been given to the practicalities of deducting the property tax through payroll. This will put enormous added expence and hassle on the pay roll system in companies.
 
Many wealthy people have low incomes but large assets. A proper property tax will take this into account.
 
demoivre said:
That will be music to the ears of those in negative equity who could afford a property tax out of disposable income.
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Why should negative equity come into it?
It's a tax on the value of your property or site, not on how much debt you have secured against it.
 
Purple said:
Why should negative equity come into it?
It's a tax on the value of your property or site, not on how much debt you have secured against it.
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You said you would exempt people, in the short run, from paying the property tax if they have no income or net assets. How is a house in negative equity a net asset?
 
demoivre said:
How is a house in negative equity a net asset?
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It's not.

If people have no net assets and no income they have no ability to pay. If they have an income but no net assets then they can pay and if they have no income but do have assets then they can also pay.
 

Because what you are advocating is generally known as "progressive" taxation, whereby the wealthy pay more in tax due to their wealth and the less well off pay less due to them having less wealth.

Obviously it does not suit FG/Labour to use the fair equitable form of taxation that you are advocating and I leave you to draw your own conclusions as to why.

The sheer level of crazy administration and costs involved in raising this farce of an inequitable regressive tax is a disgrace to all taxpayers
 
Shawady didn't mention an increase in the top rate of income tax - just an increase in income tax. We already have the most progressive income tax structure in Europe - what is needed is a broadening of the taxation structure, not an even greater steepening at the top end. An income tax alternative to property tax would/should be more likely to occur at the bottom end - bringing more people into the tax net, reducing tax credits, widening tax bands etc. - to try to make it more a per capita charge than a based-on-income charge.

And why do you say that it is fairer that 'the wealthy' (measured by income) should pay more? A retired couple with an income of 30K and a paid-off house worth 300K are in a far better position to pay additional tax than a couple earning 100K between them but with 3 children and a 300K house with a 400K mortgage...
 
I am opposed to a property tax that is based on "valuation".
It's a moving target.

I would rather it be based on square meter, a set price per m2 the country over.
We could use existing surveys and planning applications to calculate this.
It would also encourage density, which will reap rewards in future insofar as rolling out services.
 

That would be a tax on Dublin and Galway.
 

Purple said:
That would be a tax on Dublin and Galway.
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How would it be a tax on Dublin and Galway? City properties are by and large far smaller than rural ones, so people living there would be paying far less than most other areas.
 
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