Why do we need an army?

In order to be neutral you have to be able to defend yourself. We can't defend ourselves.
Anyway, Ireland is not a Neutral State, rather we are an unaligned State.
We have relied on the taxpayers of NATO States to fund our safety for the last 70 years and we make a virtue of China and Russia having a veto over whether or not we can send the few troops we have overseas.
 
Leper said:
Please expand. What is our fake neutrality?
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True neutrality looks like Switzerland or Sweden who patrol their borders land, sea and air with modern capable forces.
We have an agreement with the RAF because we have no modern intercept ability should an incident occur in our airspace.
We're not serious about neutrality. Being serious about neutrality would mean committing a much higher amount of resources.

Maybe it doesn't make sense for us to do so, but in doing so it renders any criticism we might make of US or UK defence policy adolescent.
 
Whatever agreement it is (and I wasn't aware of it) it is a good deal for Ireland and a good deal for the UK. I'll take neutrality in any form. The last thing I want for my grandchildren to be involved in is a serious war.
 
Leper said:
Whatever agreement it is (and I wasn't aware of it) it is a good deal for Ireland and a good deal for the UK. I'll take neutrality in any form. The last thing I want for my grandchildren to be involved in is a serious war.
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You probably didn't hear about it because it was a secret agreement.

Reports – confirmed by independent sources in both Britain and Ireland – that a secret deal has been reached between the Irish and British governments to allow the RAF to shoot to kill in Irish-controlled airspace in the event of a terrorist incident involving civil aviation in our skies.

Tom Clonan: Why it's time to have an open and honest debate about our neutrality

Security expert Tom Clonan says any decisions about our status must be taken by the Irish people in a transparent and ethical manner.
www.thejournal.ie
 
Leper said:
The last thing I want for my grandchildren to be involved in is a serious war.
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I agree with you but, for example, we could not send troops to help stop a genocide unless the Chinese and Russians gave us permission. I do think we should look at that.
 
I want the Irish troops to protect me and the rest of the nation. I don't want them getting involved in exterior genocides. They've been fighting each other in the Middle East for thousands of years. I have no reason to believe they'll stop fighting each other in the next hundred years. As far as I am concerned they can keep fighting each other forever. Like I said I don't want my (or any others' grandchildren) fighting wars that do not concern them or us.

If the Brits or the French, the Germans, the Chinese, the Yanks, the Russians want to get involved, that's their business, not ours. Neutrality is best for us and I think we should keep it that way.
 
Leper said:
If the Brits or the French, the Germans, the Chinese, the Yanks, the Russians want to get involved, that's their business, not ours. Neutrality is best for us and I think we should keep it that way.
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Yea, but it’s more complicated than that. It’s not just a case of them fighting each other, it’s more outside powers fighting each other through them.
We benefit from cheap oil and we build our economy and pay for our public services by stealing taxes from the countries which start those wars and remain economically powerful because of it.
We are in the Western boat, floating on a sea of suffering. We can’t pretend that we are not part of it, just because we refuse to pay for it but rather reap the benefits while hiding behind those on the front line.
 
Purple said:
We are in the Western boat, floating on a sea of suffering. We can’t pretend that we are not part of it, just because we refuse to pay for it but rather reap the benefits while hiding behind those on the front line.
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1. Yes we can pretend. And the electric car is gaining momentum and relatively shortly we won't need their bloody petrol. It'll be two fingers from us; so let them keep fighting each other as long as they leave us alone.

2. On another note:- The RAF and Royal Navy used to send long distance helicopters out into the atlantic west of our shores to rescue sea users in distress. The helicopters used to be refuelled in Cork airport and our army used to protect the aircraft. They also protected the crew in the public dining hall at the airport. The fear was that one of our bar stools activists would take a shot at the old enemy.
 
Leper said:
1. Yes we can pretend. And the electric car is gaining momentum and relatively shortly we won't need their bloody petrol. It'll be two fingers from us; so let them keep fighting each other as long as they leave us alone.
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Just remember that when you buy an electric car in Ireland it may actually be running on turf.
We'll need their oil and gas for a while yet. For my children's lifetime at least.
 
Leper said:
1. Yes we can pretend. And the electric car is gaining momentum and relatively shortly we won't need their bloody petrol. It'll be two fingers from us; so let them keep fighting each other as long as they leave us alone.
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Is this intended to be irony..how do you think the electricity is generated? Wind power is supplementary and is hugely dependent on fossil fuels for the manufacture and maintenance of the turbines.
Relatedly, Ireland would have to legislate to allow nuclear power to be generated in Ireland but is quite happy to use it via the interconnector
 
joe sod said:
So what do you suggest we subcontract out our defence to the british army, that did not work out too good the last time.
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It's already the de facto situation. The Irish 'defence' forces are an unaffordable joke.
 
Every country uses it natural resources as best it can to meet its needs, human resources, agricultural resources, whatever.

Ireland's geographical location gives us a temperate climate, and little threat of foreign aggression from any external power except the British.

We have finally (I hope its final) resolved the UK situation, a military response to our defence requirements is nonsensical. We do not have the population or the militarised society to militarily resist say a US invasion, but we do have the political positioning to make it extremely unlikely. (Compare our situation with North Korea, they have built a military defence to deter the threat of US invasion, lucky them ! )

The British also provide us with a military defence against any other possible agressor. Not out of love for us, but in their own vital interests. They are not going to allow Russia invade Ireland.

To spend money on a military defence where little threat exists and in the unlikely event that a threat did materialise we could not counter anyway, is foolish.

We do take responsibility for our own defence, we recognise our extremely fortunate geographical position, we recognise that it is in our nuclear armed neighbour's interest that no foreign power be allowed attack us, we build deep political and trading relationships with our neighbours.
 
whatever about needing an army, do we really still need the FCA or whatever it is called these days?
 
Peanuts20 said:
whatever about needing an army, do we really still need the FCA or whatever it is called these days?
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Of course, we need the FCA. I was a member once and served at the front in Youghal where we defended the south coast against invasion. We did daily patrols in case the Russians or Brits might try to sneak in west of Waterford. If they did we were the only defence between the beaches and Dublin. And when extras were needed for Barry Lyndon and Saving Private Ryan the FCA were there to help and we didn't need training in warfare. Hollywood got a good deal; so did we. When we were needed, we stood up to the challenges.

Incidentally, the FCA still takes recruits male and female. Don't hesitate to encourage your off-spring to join. They will learn how to shoot, defend themselves, march and a plethora of life skills plus comradeship and get paid too while they are away at camp.
 
The Free Clothes Association makes more sense than a standing army that couldn't defend us in a fit.
 

Which side did you fight on in the Seven Years War then?
 
Well you may laugh, but when the chips are down they always sent for Gunner Leper.
 

By that logic, canada also does not need an army. I doubt the americans would tolerate the canadians free loading on their defence spending. Afterall the canadians are also in a "fortunate geographical position" probably alot more fortunate than us. But Canada is a serious grown up country so would never entertain such a notion. In any case what would the savings from having no army be used for probably wasted on even higher salaries and more welfare.
 
joe sod said:
In any case what would the savings from having no army be used for probably wasted on even higher salaries and more welfare.
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That's very cynical... oh, no, now that I think of it it's actually correct.
 
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