The Law Reform Commission have already made their mind up on what they are going to do. Submitting our opinions is futile (Unless you're CEO of a bank). This is simply a PR exercise.
Is this some kind of Kafka-esque joke? Off topic discussion and responses to it removedUnder the Bankruptcy Act, a person can file for bankruptcy but the law is so expensive and difficult that, in practice, very few people do. I think only 8 did last year. An insolvency specialist told me that he would not recommend the process for anyone with less than €1m in assets.
But if you only bought it because of the implicit guarantee* that property prices could only go up, but then that guarantee was somehow revoked by nassty Bear Stearns & Lehman Brothers - shurely you are entitled not only to stop paying for your magic money making machine/3 bed semi/shoebox apartment - but also to a full refund?
*not written down anywhere
there is some sort of weird personal accountability thing that certain people are now trying to invoke during this crisis which is making the whole thing worse. it's bad for confidence.
The analogy doesn't travel well. The banks had a direct role in increasing property prices, by lending more and more, at higher multiples, higher LTVs and for longer periods. There were in a no-lose situation, as they just had to call the Govt to bail them out when things wen't bad.If you're serious here then your logic is ridculous. If I go into BOI tomorrow and say I want 20k to bet on Kyoto Star in the Gold Cup, because he's won loads before and my mates brother (a paddy-power shareholder?) trains him and says he's in great shape this year, and can only win. Thereafter he gets taken out by a falling horse on the third, and I default because I was misled by my info sources, how quickly would I expect to be laughed out of the place i) asking for the money ii) explaining reasons for default?
Personal accountability isn't weird, it's fundamental to a functioning society.
The banks had a direct role in increasing property prices, by lending more and more, at higher multiples, higher LTVs and for longer periods.
If it was all the banks' fault, I'm sure you can point out postings on this forum from, say, 3 years ago, showing how people were against banks doing this.
No warning signs of impending doom Here anyway.
For the record, I didn't say 'it was all the banks fault'. But the dissenting voices were there, even if most people didn't want to listen;If it was all the banks' fault, I'm sure you can point out postings on this forum from, say, 3 years ago, showing how people were against banks doing this.
The analogy doesn't travel well. The banks had a direct role in increasing property prices, by lending more and more, at higher multiples, higher LTVs and for longer periods. There were in a no-lose situation, as they just had to call the Govt to bail them out when things wen't bad.
So unless BOI are involved in setting the odds for Kyoto Star, the analogy doesn't hold.
"The banks should go through their mortgage loan books, apply the same reduction to each loan as they have been given by NAMA, and then reduce the capital amount owing, esentially putting everyone owing 100% of the current market value of their home."
So essentially, the more reckless a person was, the more they are rewarded.
Again, this leads back to the point - why would anyone in Ireland ever again be financially sensible and only borrow what they can afford, if they know they will eventually be bailed out?
Everyone played a part in this mess, no exceptions.
Irish people don't like to take responsibility, on any level, it's always someone else fault.
We are learning from past faults on a number of fronts and changing the landscape completely
No I can't, I am only assuming that you like so many others have been looking at their level of debt and thinking that maybe some of it was completely unnecessary and given the chance again, would have not taken it on.Can you tell me exactly what part I played, for example?
That's about the first thing you've said that I agree with. How this squares with the fact that you want to give some people the equivalent of hundreds of thousands of euro, perhaps even millions, because they made a bad investment, beats me.
There is no such thing as free money. Any money lost by banks will be made up by us, the taxpayers. Please explain to me why it's better for society that Tarquin Evans , who overpaid for his semi-D in Mount Merrion, should receive the equivalent of €500,000, rather than the same money being spent on job creation or on vital health services.
How on earth are we "changing the landscape completely"? Please tell me one law that has been brought in that will prevent a future property bubble like the one we have seen. Simply giving lots of money and then pretending the whole thing never happened changes absolutely nothing.
No I can't, I am only assuming that you like so many others have been looking at their level of debt
There is the mindset problem right there. You are not giving anyone money
you are only reducing a number in a computer system that tells them what they have to pay in the future
By quoting people directly, you are only re-inforcing my point about the Irish attitude. What does this Evans guy have to do with your debt (assuming you have some) or mine or anyone elses for that matter.
I have no debt whatsoever. I'm 6 figures in the black actually. Mainly due to the fact that I looked at the property bubble of the last 10 years, saw it was madness, ignored the vested interests, and stayed away.
Oh, in that case, let's increase everyone's bank deposits by tenfold, since that, too, is just a "number in a computer system".
I'm sorry, but this is economic illiteracy of mindboggling proportions. This is on par with the woman I overheard in a restaurant recently who thought NAMA was a great idea as she'd had friends who'd been refused loans for New York shopping trips.
I would have thought it was obvious that was a made-up name. How about you address the point of my argument?
Oh wait, no, I forgot. It's all only "numbers in a computer system" with absolutely no impact on the real world - I forgot that's about the whole of your argument. Somehow, our financial selves are living in some kind of "The Matrix" alternate reality - it's Keano Reeves as Neo, except he's running around with a credit card instead of a gun.
LOL. Great stuff.There is the mindset problem right there. You are not giving anyone money, you are only reducing a number in a computer system that tells them what they have to pay in the future. Remember, no-one owns their homes until the mortgage is paid. If the money to lend you for your home was created out of thin air when you signed the mortgage contract, why cant it be reduced in the same fashion?
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