Why are they afraid to name the Golden Circle?

Table A2.2 private sector lending to irish residents
[broken link removed]
Suggests private sector credit grew by 4% last year, and residential mortgage lending fell.
 

The first thing to be done is to see if they can repay the amounts. It appears they cannot be touched for 75% of the loan if they default on the Anglo loan, but can they default if they have other successful businesses e.g. a private hospital?

I've heard anecdotally that investors with large debts are re-arranging their assets in such a way as they can default on loans secured on now worthless land banks, shares, etc

Secondly, though I'm sure the majority will feel it the primary objective, is to investigate if this transaction (effectively giving away a free PUT option i.e. the right to sell at a set minimum price) should lead to prosecutions. This option would have had a significant market value at the time due to the volatility of the share price.

Thirdly, directors remuneration and incentives need to be looked at. Artificially pumping up a bank's share price using bank loans should not lead to a gain for those managing the business. One idea is that directors should never be allowed to sell shares paid as bonus so that their interests are very much aligned to profitability and dividends over the longer term.
 
Read a newspaper report this morning and seemingly the golden circle may be able to offset these losses against future gains. Is this true and should this surely be stopped?
 
DerKaiser said:
I've heard anecdotally that investors with large debts are re-arranging their assets in such a way as they can default on loans secured on now worthless land banks, shares, etc
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I was wondering this myself. How can they prevent the bank claiming back the 25% on their personal assets. The bank/government should put a hold on their assets, so as they cannot dilute, sell or put offshore a certain amount to cover their exposure to Anglo Irish. Would anything they do to avoid the debt be able to be set aside by a court. There will of course be plenty of legal protections in place to ensure that they don't get away with paying zero back.
 
Golden Circ said:
Watch this space:
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Hmm, registered in the US, does that get around libel laws?
 
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I'm surprised the Irish media haven't picked up on the Times Online story naming the four. Libel worries?
 
It was in the print version of the Times on Sunday too not just the times online.
 
I have it on strong authority who another one is as well. Kind of in the same vein as the others, it wont be long coming out.
 
There have been suggestions that the members of the Golden Circle have done nothing illegal (Like other members of AAM I am not in a position to make an informed judgement on that; unlike some of them, I do not propose to make an uninformed judgement).

I am sure that all the names will be known in the near future. What intrigues me is why these people stay in the shadows. If they have done nothing wrong, and as it appears inevitable that they will be publicly named, it would seem to be in their interest to take the initiative by announcing their involvement and defending their position in conjunction with such an announcement; much better than appearing on page 1 of one of the redtops, and then having to fight a rearguard action.

[From my forthcoming work "PR is Really Easy", page 1. I'll work on page 2 next week.]
 
Of course the other problem here is that these 10 are extremely wealthy & they will hire the best law firms that money can buy & they will fight the state for years if it needs. This is going to cost a friggin fortune. Nevertheless though, the judicial process must hold its course here & if there are wrong doings then it must be met with justice.
 
Padraigb said:
It's not because they are shareholders; it's because they are customers of the bank.
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I dont see how the names are confidential.

Anglo is no longer listed on the stock market, so shareholder confidentiality is irrelevant. It is a 100% private company that is owned by the taxpayer. Any owner of any business has access to their own customer database and knows everything about the financial arrangement they have with their customer. It doesnt matter if a company has 1 owner, or in the case of Anglo, a few million. We, as owners of the company, have a right to know about our own customers.
 
csirl said:
... Any owner of any business has access to their own customer database and knows everything about the financial arrangement they have with their customer...
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That's simply not true. It goes right against a fundamental principle of company law (the separation of ownership and control) and, as has already been pointed out here, also goes against banking law.

Further, even if a sole shareholder was in possession of such information, it does not follow that there is a right to disclose it.
 
So if one submitted a Freedom of Information request to Anglo, would they reveal the names of the Golden Circle to the requester?
 
Padraigb said:
Can I submit a FOI request to your bank to get details of your account?
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No you can't because that's confidential but as I'm now part owner of Anglo, I am the bank and I'm entitled to know everything and everybody who has anything to do with Anglo, I think that's Csirl's point which I agree with. I wonder now could I write a letter to the current Head of my bank and ask him for a list of all my big customers and all their details?

The simple reason they are not giving us the names is because they want us to waste our energy on this and other conspiracy theories so we don't focus on the real things like the country collapsing.
 
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Yeah...I see your point except my bank isn't owned by the government (yet!!!). Strictly speaking if the government owns Anglo does that not mean that Anglo is covered by the FoI Acts?
 

If we follow your line of reasoning, you should have access to my Income Tax data and to my medical records from the time I was in a public hospital.

Anyway, you are not the owner of Anglo-Irish; the Minister for Finance, in his capacity as Minister, is the owner.

A pack baying for blood is a terrifying sight.
 
Padraigb said:
If we follow your line of reasoning, you should have access to my Income Tax data and to my medical records from the time I was in a public hospital.
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In Norway all income tax records are published online. Coincidentally(?), it seems to be one of the countries least affected by the current depression.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4318382.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/not_in_website/syndication/monitoring/media_reports/2321301.stm

(Yes, yes they also have oil and their own sovereign fund)
 
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