Why are there so few women comedians?

Re: humour

Tried, but failed, to think of funny female participants on comedy programmes that lasted several years as these would have used virtually every comic in existence.
Whose line is it anyway - Josie Lawrence drove me nuts
Have I got News for you - any funny female guests were usualy those who had a biting sense of humour but weren't actually comediennes
Harry Enfield show - Kathy Burke is priceless and without knowing if she ever did do standup I reckon I'd pay to see her if she was in Vickers Street tomorrow
Satruday Night Live - (remember this, Ben Elton, the Dangerous brothers) can't remember any funny women but to be fair memories of this have faded into the mists of time.
I did like Jennifer Saunders in the early stages of her career but again did she ever do standup?
Maybe its because women are more mentally balanced than men, if you ever really want to depress yourself watch documentaries on the lives of carry on team, frankie howard, spike milligan, keny evertt, hancock, peter sellars the list could get much bigger.

And another thing

Why do women have absolutely NO interest in sport (Irealnd in the World Cup a notable exception)?

Re: humour

I'm sticking with the comedy side of it, I swear ...

Are we sure it's not just a case of taste? It's hard to see that because a few men in Ireland think there are more/better men stand-ups that men are the funnier sex fullstop - it feels like quite a leap. Would you think it's that more men find stand-up more funny (live or otherwise) than women do? Loads of guys I know had a Billy Connolly video somewhere but I don't know any woman with one. I think he's brilliant myself but not enough to go and get a video.

Black Books. Most guys I know think that's priceless but it's totally (and I mean completely) lost on me. It's mildly humourous at best, but that's about it. And Jason Byrne, can't really see the big deal there either. Tommy Tiernan is funny but to me, he's as much of a one-trick pony as Deirdre O'Kane, just hasn't been so over-exposed.

Women characters/ actresses feature in most comedies, so women must be able to get some "universal" jokes and deliver them, even if they didn't write them. Some funny women characters/actresses/comedians that come to me; Keeping Up Appearances, Absolutely Fabulous, (can't think of the name of the Asian woman who does the granny on the Kumars), Julie Waters, Vicar of Dibley, Connie Booth wrote Fawlty Towers with John Cleese and others have mentioned Victoria Wood, Joan Rivers, Ruby Wax, and my personal favourite is Kathy Burke.

Rebecca

Re: humour

I went to some comedy thing in vicar street a while ago in aid of a cancer charity and there was a female comedian who was actually quite funny. Can't remember her name but she was singing songs and dressed badly.

As a huge comedy fan, I've seen most irish comedians many times and have to say that some of the more popular blokes are worse than any female comics - Tommy Tiernan being the first to spring to mind (used to be ok in the comedy night in the GPO in Galway but has gone downhill since then). The worst have to be the cuban brothers who used to always play in the laughter lounge - a woman wouldn't dare lower her standards by performing their "act".

There was a really funny woman on the comedy stand up thing on paramount 2 a couple of weeks ago, must take note of her name next time I see her.

humour

The thing I find with Jason Byrne and Tommy Tiernan is they were funnier when they werent doing tv. I preferred them on a thursday night upstairs in the norseman much more so then I ever did in vicar street. Both of them werent great on tv, although tiernan did come across a lot more human. The money for these guys is in writing for tv so after a while they lose what got them there and try to work tv humour into their standup. The edge is gone for them. Again I blame RTE.

I was trying to think of drop the dead donkey. Again, very funny females. More original humour can be found with those 3 black girls late at night, bbc2 I think. Very funny. Much too "out there" for RTE.

Some good comediennes

Now that people are suggesting names, I can think of some good comediennes.

How could I have forgotten Caroline Ahern who played Mrs Merton and who co-wrote the Royle Family? One of my favourites in recent years. I would certainly go to see her live. Has she had a problem with alcoholism/heavy drinking recently, which suggests that really funny people may need to be a bit unstable. She wrote another series which wasn't funny.

The three black women were great the first few times. I don't know if I got embarrassed watching it or got bored or maybe it's a double whammy, I am not genetically predisposed to finding black women funny.

Niles

Re: Some good comediennes

Maybe the 'unstable' people are the most stable people.
How can people be truely stable, when we're all living on a minute rock, with limited life spans? The whole thing is insane. Anyway, I've veered OT. I think Gwenith, the welsh woman, was hilarious.

Tommy

Tommy Tiernan is utter rubbish , i went to see him in Vicar street , the warm up guy was the much funnier. All he does is shout and have a go at the cheeky Dubs and the think lads from the country , well i walked out before the end it was about as funny as a kick in the nuts.

For me i love the below:

Bill Hicks , Jerry Seinfeld , Roy Chubby Brown , Bob Monkhouse , Rodney Dangerfield oh and not forgeting Dermot Morgan.

Re: Tommy

Yeah. Have to agree. Tommy Tiernan is just not funny.
Saw him at last years Cat Laughs. Extremely unfunny. People were cringing in the audience. Absolute rubbish.

Jason Byrne on the other hand is brilliant. Saw him at the cat laughs too and vicar street last year.

The highlight of the cat laughs was Jimmy Carr. I wasn't expecting anything from him and he had me literally rolling on the floor. Very un-pc humour though.

another female comic

I think ronnie ancona (I think that is how you spell her name)
is very good. She used to be on channel 4 on alastair mcgowans big impressions and did everyone from posh to vets in practice to audrey hepburn.

On the feminist argument, as a female I would say Ive never fretted about why there arent more females in the arts, MDs, racing car drivers etc. I know if I want to do it, I can, there is nothing holding us back.

There are simply more important things to worry about than feminism.

cas.

Re: another female comic

There are simply more important things to worry about than feminism.

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Unless you're a man. Feminists worry the hell out of me!



-Rd

Re: another female comic

I think there is more holding women back then you think folks we all know women get broody at some stage and want to raise a child and we all know children are a 24/7 job, not that it's a womans job to raise the kids lots of men these days are happy to do it but most women prefer to do it they prefer to be around to put the plasters on and kiss it better, the maternal instinct kicks in and mammydrive takes over most women will agree that kids come before the career and they are happy to take that leading role.
Any woman who is successful in their career has the sprog with a creche/childminder or even decide not to have kids until later in life or not at all to pursue a career.
I may be wrong but thats what I see :\
Fair play to the mammies they have the greatest career in the world moulding and teaching the next generation

balance

Indeed, mothers have the most important, and a very difficult, job.

While not 50/50, there are a good few funny female comics. British TV contains several.

Interestingly, there are very few female chess players. And I don't think there are that many female philosophers or mathematicians.

(At least I don't think so anyway)

I didn't start it this time....!!

I'm so glad someone started this up again ... I wanted so badly to reply to the comment that there are more important things to worry about than feminism. Of course there are, but then there are more important things to worry about than many of the issues raised on AAM and it's not just feminism; any kind of injustice gets me all worked up. Worrying about the bigger picture and things like feminism, politics etc. and trying to improve the situation directly effects the day-to-day "more important" issues of everybody in society.

The problem with philosopy and mathematics as I understand is that women were traditionally not allowed to enter academies and study. Philosphy is one of my fav. subjects but there is no denying the chauvanistic nature of the subject at large and of particular philosophers. Looking at how badly the "greatest minds" got women wrong makes me wonder for the whole subject. I went to an all-girl convent and only 13 years ago we had to go to the board of education to get the right to study physics which was only taught at the CBS; a man's subject. I had to fight very hard to be allowed to keep up honours maths when the numbers dropped too and we ended up having to go to the CBS for that and eventually we helped the lads gain access to home economics classes in the girls' school. That was only 13 years ago .. things have a long long way to go.

But don't be fooled, there's still room for huge improvement with regard to feminist issues - it's the idea that it might be all "sorted" and the passivity of women in accepting so little that drives me really crazy. Don't forget we live in a society that gives more tax advantages to the women who go out to work and many women have no choice; so much for the great Irish stay-at-home mammy.

Rebecca

Re: balance

and we all know children are a 24/7 job

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The following comments may be a little controvercial.
Apologies in advance.

One thing that annoys me is when I hear women complain that it's hard to get to the top in business and raise a family. Well of course it is, but that doesn't mean business has to change to accomodate you.

If a man took a year or two or three out for whatever reason he'd similarly find it hard to rise to the top, his earnings would be hit, he'd find himself out side the loop to an extent.

If there are other factors stopping your climb, or if women are earning less based on equivalent experience etc to a man then fine, I'd be very interested in tackling that.

But I worry when women who left work for a year or two talk about being discriminated when they return because they are now out of the loop to an extent, or they're not as high on the promotion ladder as they would have been if they'd stayed working.

This is a bit jumbled, sorry if the point I'm making isn't clear.
Please don't hurt me. It's just an opinion.

-Rd

Women in jobs

Hi daltonr

I agree with you. I don't think it's fair on men who have stayed in their jobs that women who take career breaks to have children or extended maternity leave or whatever expect to get equal chances at career progression. As a single woman with no children, it's not fair on me either. However, these women are gone to have children; not have a gap year getting drunk in Australia. They are providing a service to society at large and in fairness, wouldn't there be an equal proportion of men gone on maternity leave if they could actually have babies in the first place?! In any case, I have seen stats (although I don't know their reliability so I won't quote them) that show that women are more or less proportionately represented as lower and middle management grades but still don't make it to senior management of board level in anything even approaching a proportionate level.

I disagree with you though; it's not *just* business that needs to change (in fairness business has changed far more than most areas and has the best stats on the inclusion of women). It's the whole of society that needs to shift; the fundamentals governing society are male and that's why women (with their inconvenient child bearing issues) don't fit into them properly. And the point I was making earlier is that I'm really disappointed that the greater inclusion of women in society (business, politics, the arts etc) has not resulted in far more fundamental changes. We have just accepted what we could persuade men to give us and not really shaken the thing up properly to accomodate ourselves. Like I say the thing I dispair about is not men at all; it's the complete apathy of women and their blindness to what is going on around them. Piggy said earlier that he suspected women would enter the debate but the only woman other than me doesn't see a problem.

Rebecca

PS My replies are probably not that coherent either, so apologies to anyone confused.

passivity of women in accepting so little

Hi Miss Ribena,

passivity of women in accepting so little

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I assume you didnt mean offense by this but I do feel I have to address it; just because I feel there are more important things to worry than feminism does not mean Im passive or accepting so little.

For example, if I want to become comedienne in the morning I have the same things holding me back as daltonr, rainyday or piggy.

- Am I funny?
- Can I stand up in front of crowd?
- Can I afford to quit my job to pursue this full time?
- Can I get a gig?
- Do i need to get a manager?

Being a woman doesnt come into it....I think we (women) are our own worse enemy if we feel that feminism is an issue here.

I also went to an all girls convent school and did my leaving cert 13 yrs ago. Im sorry to hear of the trouble you had and yes I agree with you, if a person is discriminated because of sex, (or other reasons ie colour of skin or religion) then htere is a problem and you are right to be concerned. Im glad that your year probably changed the way that school operated from there on forward (well done). This wasnt the case in our school, so I think it must vary on a school by school basis (?) I studied both honours physics and maths (classes were small too). Im now a management consultant and while most (but not all) of my peers are men, again, being a woman didnt hold me back. And yes, if I wish, I can leave and become a mammy someday please God.

Im not accepting so little at all.

Feminism

No Casiopea, I didn't mean to offend you and sorry if it came across that way. You actually replied which isn't passive at all - the fact that we disagree doesn't worry me.

I only used my personal case as an example of the small things that are still out there and wasn't whinging at my experience but it's a fairly common problem (I see my niece with a similar issue at the moment). The leaving cert. results still show gendering of subjects and employment statistics reflect the results of that and that's what I'm questioning. Incidentally I did the leaving cert. 9 years ago but had the fight on the subjects 13 years ago so it's even less far back than you think.

Maybe you were lucky - I know I consider myself lucky. I come from a stable family background, got a good education (subject problem notwithstanding), am reasonably bright, was encouraged by my family in everything I did, took a couple of risks along the way and was lucky. But how many women are not in such a lucky position? And how many wind up pregnant before they get a chance? But all that is kinda beside the point. I would suggest that you are very lucky if you have not found yourself fighting harder than your male counterparts on occasion. I have certainly come across this but luckily there's no better woman to fight her corner than me It's not always big issues, sometimes it's really small ones. I could list them but I really really don't want to seem like a whinger because I'm not.

No matter what our personal experiences the facts show that women aren't participating in society 50%. And I believe that is a problem and there is something seriously wrong. You and I might be alright but that doesn't mean there isn't a problem or at the very least something that warrants fairly fundamental investigation. And as I've said I see the problem being with women rather than men. It's as worrying for me if women don't want to be involved as it is if they want to but find it difficult.

Rebecca

feminism

Hi Miss Ribena,

Thanks for your reply. Its always interesting to debate these things!

Yes, I have a similiar background to yourself, so yes I was lucky (as were my brothers), especially as we had parents who always encouraged us.

But how many women are not in such a lucky position? And how many wind up pregnant before they get a chance?

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I understand what you are saying, dont get me wrong, but the problem I have with this is that this could effect men too.
A boy born into a family that doesnt support him has as many obstacles as a girl born into such a family. (Yes I know he cant get pregnant !!!). Such a boy will face obstacles in school, will unfortunately be more prone to bullying or being bullied, will be suscepitible to drugs, wont be encouraged to pursue college or a career. Will not be encouraged to follow his hearts desire (to become a comedian ) ). All joking aside will face a bleak future.

No matter what our personal experiences the facts show that women aren't participating in society 50%

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I dont dispute this. But is feminism the answer here? Just because women dont participate does not mean that they cant. There is a difference. I might not be coherent here
but I would see

1- feminism and not being allowed to do something
2- women not being fully involved in all aspects of society

as two different things.

What do you think?

cas.

Feminism

Hi casiopea

Yeah it is great to get to discuss this - thanks for the reply again.

I see what you are saying about guys coming from disadvantaged backgrounds facing equal problems, but thats just not what happens on the ground. The ESRI and National Council for Women state that women are far more likely to live in poverty than men (www.nwci.ie). One parent families are more likely to live in poverty and since most one parent families are headed by women this compounds the issue, especially combined with the fact that women over 65 are again more likely to live in poverty than male counterparts. I knew these statistics weren't great but when I read over it now it struck me that maybe it's no wonder society isn't seeing a full quota of female participation but it is a wonder they aren't a lot more angry.

I think the reason we are having a problem agreeing on feminism is because I think it's been tarred with a kind of radical image and become somewhat of a dirty word. There are all kinds of feminists and many types of feminism. If we changed the discussion to be about "women's issues" I'd be afraid everyone would think it was diets and lipsticks, the way MSN do. (It's a pet hate, not a vital issue but MSN categorise their sub-websites on a menu bar and "Women" are just one of many others like "Money", "Cars" "Entertainment" but there is no "Men" category!). Anyway no matter what we call the issue; feminism, women's issues - there is something seriously wrong and I still despair that it's not higher on the agenda.

Rebecca