Why are there so few women comedians?

One of the Nualas has written an article on page 16 in today's Irish Times bemoaning the lack of female stand-up comedians. At the forthcoming Cat Laughs Festival, there will be 3 women out of 49 performers.

She says that this is because audiences are more prepared to laugh at men because convention says women aren't funny. I don't think that convention has that much to do with it. Perhaps expectation plays a minor part. If you expect someone to be funny, you will be more prepared to laugh. But I don't think it could explain why only 6% of the funny stand ups are female.

I, for one, could not find anything remotely funny about the Nualas. Nor do I find anything remotely funny about the article today. She quotes the best lines from 6 female comics, and they simply aren't funny. Ok maybe "that's not cellulite, I sat on a hairbrush".

Come to think of it, I can't name one female comic who I think is funny. That's probably just a bad memory. There are some great comic actresses but I don't think that they write their own material. I've never seen Deirdre O'Kane but I have been told that she is funny.

Can anyone think of a really top class female comedian nationally or internationally? Do women find female comedians funnier than men?

Niles

A bit rich that one of the Nuala's is writing about the lack of female stand-ups given that their seriously unfunny and have to some extent soured the market for any budding talent coming behind them.
I remember seeing Rhona Cameron (I think that's her name, she was on I'm a Celebrity) a few years ago doing stand up on tv and she was really funny in an early Alanis Morrisette bitter and twisted kind of way.
I find Deirdre O'Kane very hit and miss, more often miss and I reckon that it's a mainly male profession because men don't mind being laughed at, have a better sense of humour, have been told that women like "men who make them laugh", are fairly childish and also easily amused.

Victoria Wood makes me laugh. DOK just gets on my nerves.

On news today Spike Milligan had his epitaph done, reads 'I told you I was ill'. Genius and hilarious.

It's not just comedians ....

I'm genuinely not trying to start a feminist rant on this one but I believe the problem is far more widespread than comedy or even the established arts. Look at politics; where are the women there? And it's not just in Ireland - it's all over the so-called developed world. There are less successful women artists, writers, managers etc. - despite greater access to these professions. Even many of the women I know in business (at management level) seem happy enough to play the game by male rules. I think the reasons behind womens' absence are necessarily complex but at the crux of the issue is that even by relaxing all the rules and conventions we are asking women to participate in a world that they haven't had much of a part in creating and is based on a male perspective. The bleak part is that I would have expected more radical change by now but perhaps that's just impatience, we can't expect 50 years of (relative) freedom to rebalance 3000 years of (relative) supression.

I'm disappointed that there aren't more women participating more vocally; demanding to be involved on their own terms, rather than just providing a female mirror to a man's world. I'm very sad that the feminist movement has been so easily blighted and even sadder at the apathy of my friends. The bit that really scares me (and I certainly wouldn't go admitting this too often) is that maybe we just don't generally have it in us.

I'm off to jump in the Shannon now

Rebecca

Re: It's not just comedians ....

"I'm genuinely not trying to start a feminist rant on this one"

Yes you are

"Look at politics; where are the women there?"

Ask yourself what type of person you need to be to be a politician and then thank god there aren't that many women. It might actually be saying something positive about your sex.

"Even many of the women I know in business (at management level) seem happy enough to play the game by male rules"

What does that mean?

"I'm disappointed that there aren't more women participating more vocally; demanding to be involved on their own terms, rather than just providing a female mirror to a man's world"

The last company i worked in was run by women. They exhibited all the bad qualities that men do (liek giving all the nice jobs to their female collegues for instance), but much, much worse. I'm not saying all women are like that...just one of my experiences. Anecdotal.

"The bit that really scares me (and I certainly wouldn't go admitting this too often) is that maybe we just don't generally have it in us."

:lol ....I'm not saying a word!!

Women just don't cut it

What gender do you instinctively conjure up when you hear the following terms:

Genius
Scientist
Chess Master
Bridge Champion
Maniac

I have deliberately chosen areas where women's physical stature should not naturally act against them.

QED :smokin

Re: Women just don't cut it

That’s a bit rich coming from one of the Nualas. Their songs were mildly amusing but there is a limit to the comic potential of three gank looking women talking dirty.

Re: It's not just comedians ....

Hi piggy

Thanks for reply (and not shooting me down!!). I don't really know enough about feminism (although evidently far more than many of my friends) so I can't go on a rant or defend women everywhere - like you, much of what I have to say on this issue is annecdotal or based on "hunches". But I do welcome the chance to talk about this issue anywhere; people generally don't want to know.

"Even many of the women I know in business (at management level) seem happy enough to play the game by male rules" The last company i worked in was run by women. They exhibited all the bad qualities that men do (liek giving all the nice jobs to their female collegues for instance), but much, much worse. I'm not saying all women are like that...just one of my experiences. Anecdotal.

These are part of the same thing as I see it. Because business, industry, science etc. were founded and developed by men essentially and have only recently been infiltrated by women and on a limited basis (fewer numbers, lesser roles, generally speaking) the organisational structures and policies reflect that. I wonder whetherwomen basically have to adopt more "masculine" qualities to succeed. Even if we don't count ruthlessness (e.g.) as a particularly masculine quality maybe men are more inclined to adopt it than women, hence more men at the top. Or perhaps men don't have to be so ruthless and get to the top more easily. I feel that whatever you look at it, men invented the game and women are just joining in rather than really taking the bull by the horns and really making a more balanced world (which I think would benefit men just as much as women).

And maybe my feminist antennae is up a bit because I found this bit:
Ask yourself what type of person you need to be to be a politician and then thank god there aren't that many women. It might actually be saying something positive about your sex
really partronising, although i know (from your other posts) that that is probably not how you meant it - but it smells of "what would you be worrying your pretty little head about politics for, it's a filthy business".

Rebecca

Re: It's not just comedians ....

I've never seen Deirdre O'Kane but I have been told that she is funny.

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I like Comedy A LOT, and I think Deirdre O'Kane is rubbish. I'm sorry but I do and that's that. She proved she was rubbish by doing a Nissan Micra Ad. As Bill Hicks would say "Once you do an ad for anything, you forfeit your right to be taken seriously.

(Not to start a chauvanist rant) but the best comedians are Men. Who know's why??????

Maybe women spend too much time reading self help books and Magazine articles about women who married someone on Death Row. (Not very conducive to humour)

The men I know are far more likely to crack a joke than the women I know. Perhaps there's a psychological difference. I don't know.

The best Chefs, Chess Players, Racing Drivers, Musicians, Artists, Sculptors, Poets, Architects, etc. Are also Men.
Who know's why?????

Maybe men are just better at Stuff. Wouldn't that be a pisser for Germaine Greer?

I've seen a few good American women do good standup, so there are lots of exceptions to the rule. But the best women standups don't come close to Bill Hicks, or Robin Williams, or Billy Connolly, or Chris Rock, etc, etc, etc.

This ex-Nuala was actually calling for positive discrimination at a comedy festival!?!?! That's the funniest thing an Irish female comic has come up with in years.

If you're a woman and you can do stand up, then do it. If you're funny, we'll laugh. If we don't laugh, don't go whining to the Irish Times, like a girl.

-Rd

Re: It's not just comedians ....

I'm trying really hard not to go BLOODY MENTAL. It's not easy. Are there no other girls who can back me up in responding to this:

The best Chefs, Chess Players, Racing Drivers, Musicians, Artists, Sculptors, Poets, Architects, etc. Are also Men.
Who know's why?????

I don't believe it's because women aren't as good as men at all those things. For a start, I don't know if I buy into the idea that men and women are good at different things (apart from the obvious physcial strength difference, which I guess plays a part in racing drivers and sport). I can never figure out how even the best (male) chefs will say that their mothers were the best "cooks" they knew and they all seem to have their grandmothers' risotto/bakewell/bread-and-butter pudding recipes!! So much for sauce for the goose ...

Historically (and I'm not talking about the IceAge here folks - only 50 years ago in some instances!), women were denied access to the academies and institutions that taught and fostered talent in the arts. And association with any of the arts tended to taint a women's reputation and blight her marriage prospects - and since they had no vote or legal status, could not participate without male approval. That's not even 3 generations ago. It is definitely true for artists, sculptors, poets and architects. It is also true that the arts are generally the preserve of those who have free time - women were generally afforded less and even those that were, were encouraged in arts that held lesser status. Like I say, it's hard to right 3000 years of repression in 50 years of limited freedom.

Maybe I am just the only one who feels that there's still huge untapped potential in women and that there's still a long way to go on these kinds of issues.

Rebecca

?

a contridiction in terms?

Re: It's not just comedians ....

"And maybe my feminist antennae is up a bit because I found this bit:
Ask yourself what type of person you need to be to be a politician and then thank god there aren't that many women. It might actually be saying something positive about your sex
really partronising, although i know (from your other posts) that that is probably not how you meant it - but it smells of "what would you be worrying your pretty little head about politics for, it's a filthy business". "


No...I didn't mean anything derogatory about it. I don't like/trust politicians that much. That's what I meant. It seems that you have to be a particular type of lying piece of slime to be one in the first place.

Anyway, don't you be worrying your pre....only joking of course

Re: It's not just comedians ....

OK, relax. My comment about men being better at "Stuff" was a joke. You see!!!! That's why there are only 3 women at the Cat laughs festival. No sense of humour.

I don't want to make light of your argument (other than the odd joke since this is a thread about being funny).

But I've heard the argument you are putting forward before and I'm not entirely convinced by it. I agree women today may have to work harder to get ahead, but so what? People from inner cities have to work harder too, catholics had to work harder in the North, Blacks have to work harder in the USA, People with disabilities can work as hard as they wan't it'll do them very little good.

On the grand scheme of things I find it hard to have sympathy for comediennes who can't get a gig in Kilkenny, or for the many career women who are having trouble becomming MD.

I hate listening to Healty, Wealthy, well eduacted White Middle class women moan about how they're downtrodden.

I'm not saying the world is perfect and these women get treated just like their male counterparts. But really, on the grand scale of unfairness in humanity, it ranks pretty low.

There is more legislation in place now to protect equal opportunities that there has ever been. Apart from Priest I can't think of many jobs that women are prevented from pursuing. If you wan't to do something and you're good enough then JUST DO IT.

On top of all the equality legislation women are routinely favoured by the family law courts, and men are treated disgracefully.

Sorry if this mail offends you but if a Healthy Wealthy Well Educated White Male complained about discrimination I'd say exactly the same thing.

-Rd

Re: It's not just comedians ....

Thanks for the clarification daltonr and piggy. Am relieved it was meant jokingly. Maybe feminism and a sense of humour are mutually exclusive

Don't get me wrong, I'm not giving out about men really. I don't believe that men are holding women back any longer. But it feels like the world got so far with feminism and women got enough to keep the majority happy and then got bored.

I don't think feminism should be just about women sharing what men already had, it should have been about adding something new - changing things or creating (the arts, institutions, industry etc. etc.) to suit women instead of just getting the right to participate in a man's world. Feminism didn't ask enough "what do women want to be/do?", it seems to have just decided that we wanted what men had rather than striking out with a new vision.

But even judging by this thread I'm in a very small minority of women who feel like this and I guess I just have to accept that and shut up about how frustrated I feel with womens' acceptance of so little as being enough.

Rebecca

PS It's a minor point but I don't believe that comparisons with ethnic minorities, the poor, disabled etc. groups is accurate, because all those groups are made up by 50% women and women in those groups have it doubly hard as their male counterparts.

we're just funnier!!

I don't think it's convention. I think your average man is funnier than the average woman. You can see this even in young children. Who's nearly always the "class clown" in schools. A boy. Boys are just generally cheekier, and born messers. Tommy Tiernan was saying how he and Hector Ó hEochagain went to the same school in Navan and were both pure messers.

Who's the funniest in Friends, for example? Well it's not Monica or Rachel, Phoebe is funnier, but more likely Joey or Chandler.

Think of the witty people at your workplace, are they men, women, both? The funniest people I know are men... But women are better to look at of course so that balances things out a bit!

Re: we're just funnier!!

"Who's the funniest in Friends, for example? Well it's not Monica or Rachel, Phoebe is funnier, but more likely Joey or Chandler."

In fairness...that'd because the script writers make them funnier and has nothing to do with how funny they are as people. They are actors.

nope

Friends is a comedy, so all of the actors are given funny scripts.

Re: we're just funnier!!

it seems to have just decided that we wanted what men had rather than striking out with a new vision.

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Give me an example of how women could get something different out of the Arts or achieve something different, rather than accept what men have had. I don't see what you mean.

You're right about the ethnic minorities etc. But what you're referring to is compound discrimination. Where a person falls into more than one category and is doubly discriminated.

I stand by my point that well educated women have it much easier than they ever have and if they are held back they at least have at their disposal tools to address the inequality.

But women are better to look at of course so that balances things out a bit!

Click to expand...

You're going straight to Feminist Hell for that one.
But you're right, they are.

-Rd

Re: we're just funnier!!

Hi daltonr

As a very minor example, I'm sure when feminism was on its crest in the seventies, that it would have been expected that acceptance of institutional art such as painting and sculpture would have been overthrown, or at least greatly questioned. I would have liked to have seen new formats explored and established or perhaps a resurgence of arts hitherto seen as "women's art" e.g. tapestry etc. I can't guess as to what these new formats might have been or will be (hopefully) because I don't have the talent but it seems strange taht women were allowed to engage properly in the arts and just followed in men's footsteps. I would have thought that something different/new/exciting would have come about. Maybe this anti-climax is all there is and I just need to deal with it but I find it hard to accept that this is as good as it gets.

Like I say, I don't have an issue with men holding women back - I've decided to excuse the balance of the dodgy remarks on this thread as being meant in jest I just feel frustrated that more women don't share my feeling that there's loads more left in us to do. Look at this thread, no other woman wants to talk about this - only guys. I'd love to be able to engage in dialectic debates to tease out the issues and maybe find new ideas and ways forward, but most women don't want to know, and that's my answer really. The couple of friends that are interested in this stuff are far more radical than me and seem a bit blinkered to the fact that most women can't be bothered or don't see anything wrong in the first place.

Rebecca

Re: we're just funnier!!

"Look at this thread, no other woman wants to talk about this - only guys"

At a guess, I'd say you were pretty much in a room full of men. My gut feeling tells me there aren't all that many women who post here.

Await torrent of female posters telling me how wrong I am