Who covers the cost of training?

Is it reasonable for an employer to ask an employee to pay for half the cost of an independently run training course (on the employees own time)when attendance at the training course will not result in any kind of pay rise?

I think it depends.

If you WANT to do the course, and it will give you an extra certified skill which you can add to your CV and take with you to another company, it could be worth paying half.

On the other hand, if it's a course which the company wants you to do, specific to the company, which has no long term advantages fo you, then it's not worth it to you to pay half.

Even if you dont get an immediate pay-rise after the course, does it mean you are eligible for promotion or other jobs within your company, in which case you could realise the benefit later?

Where I work, it depends on whose idea it was to do the course.
If the employee asks to do a course, which may be useful, but not essential,
they may be asked to contribute to the cost.

OK, the person in question is Mrs rgb90 (working in education)
She DOES want to do the course (thinks it would be interesting).
It WILL add a certified skill to her CV (although she has no desire to change jobs for the forseeable future)
Her employer WILL benefit from her new skills.

However, as I am a mercenery minded, self-employed contractor I think it is foolish to pay to be trained for something without the incentive of future financial reward while the employer gets immediate and long term benefit from the training.
Therefore I dont think she should pay towards the cost of the training,
I think she should be paid for her time while training and any expenses should be covered by the employer.

Am I being niave/greedy?

rgb90 said:

Am I being niave/greedy?

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... not if they agree!

The only problem comes when, if she makes those demands/requests, her employer decides not to even cover half (or whatever fraction) of the expenses and she misses out. It probably comes down to if shes willing to take the risk of having to sit out the course.

Is the employer getting funded towards Mrs rgb90 attending this course, hence costing him nothing. The reason I am asking this as there are various incentives available to employers towards training staff especially if the courses is certified.

Whose idea was it to do the course? The employee or the employer?

Yes, I think it all depends on whose idea it was to do the course.

If she has just found this course and would like to do it, and approached work for funding, I think she is lucky to get the funding.
Many companies stipulate that if they fund a course, the employee must stay a number of years in the company after completing the course, or else pay the funding back.

However, if the company suggested she go on this course, then I think they should pay, and also give her time-in-lieu, since she's doing it on her own time.

On a related issue, what if someone (me!) is thinking about going back to college for a year part time- say Fridays and Saturday mornings; what is considered fair in this scenario? I'm looking at an add-on degree programme in a speciality area that will benefit my employer and will certainly benefit me. I've broached the subject with my employer but have yet to discuss details. I know that certain course fees are tax allowable (correct terminology) and my travelling expenses could also be allowable for my employer- but how far can you push it? Either way I really want to take up the opportunity (if it arises) but I'd obviously prefer my employer to cover some of the cost. Anybody have experience in this area?

Carpenter said:

Anybody have experience in this area?

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I was in a similar situation. Wanted to study a course, which would benefit my employer, but far more for my own benefit. Had a look into possible finance (a previous thread showed the brick wall I hit there).

Was always hoping work would pick up some of the tab. Got the support of direct management and after a chat with head of training & development have a provisional agreement for them to pick up full funding..... (Drafting the formal letter of application as we speak so not all 100% signed and sealed yet)

Got lucky in that the company have a strong belief in training. Was surprised that no conditions (stay for a minimum period, pay back amounts depending on how long after you leave etc) were stipulated.... other than passing the thing, which I do feel is fair.
Was thinking of updating the other thread, but thought I'd leave it until the formal application has been fully accepted.

Hope it provides a little light at the end of the tunnel C, it can happen!

as i read it she does not need the course to do her job, hense why should her employer pay. If i did an English grammer course in the local VEC it would benefit me and my writing of reports / emails but would not be essential for my job so therefore my employer would not pay.
Now she can do the job she was hired to do without the course so the employer says why should i pay it???
Talk nice and they may relent?
You can claim back tax relief on course fees.

nelly said:

as I read it she does not need the course to do her job, hence why should her employer pay.

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A lot of employers look at providing (non essential) training for staff as a way to increase morale/motivation, improve staff performance, encourage staff retention, increase staff recruitment prospects etc. Not sure if the education sector will be as keen on this type of thing as some others though.

Satanta said:

Hope it provides a little light at the end of the tunnel C, it can happen!

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Cheers Satanta,
I think my employers are progressive enough- I'll soon know!
Carpenter

If you (or anyone) is lucky enough to get the employer to agree, its worth getting an agreement (in writing) of the conditions attached....

- How long you (may) have to stay with the employer
- Consequences if you do leave (usually graded by time, 3 months, 6 months, a year)
- (Perish the thought, but still.. ) Consequences if exams are failed
- (Bit more positive) Increase in pay / lump sum / change in title/responsibilities

Probably worth gauging the reaction before pushing on any of that, but if they seem keen its certainly worth asking the questions.

Hi Carpenter,

I was in a similar situation in which I wanted to do a post-grad diploma (which was directly related to my work), and hoped that my company would contribute to the costs.

The way I went about it, was to be really business-like.
I wrote up a business case, showing the advantages to my employer if I did the course, and since it was such a hands-on course, how these advantages could be applied immediately to the company. I then requested a meeting with the company director to pitch the idea to him, and gave him a presentation.
Luckily they agreed to pay 90% of the cost upfront, which I had to pay back if I failed!

Also if the course you want to do is on fri and sat - is that fri after work or during the day? You'd need to be clear on whether it shall impinge on your normal day to day work, and if you are requesting allowances in that area too.

If I were you, I'd try to look at it from every angle, so that you'll have a thought-out answer to whatever questions your employer may have for you.

ragazza said:

Hi Carpenter,
is that fri after work or during the day? You'd need to be clear on whether it shall impinge on your normal day to day work, and if you are requesting allowances in that area too.

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Thanks Ragazza, I'm trying to pitch the idea at the moment and your comments are helpful. I've already submitted a written "Job description- where am I now/ where am I going" form for discussion at our yearly review. As for the course itself: I'm looking at a full day Friday- I don't think I can reasonably ask my employer to pay me for that day! However I was hoping that I could negotitate some kind of sponsorship in relation to the travel costs, which are tax deductible I imagine. As you suggest I will have to prepare a professional presentation and treat it as a business proposition. I don't think this will be too difficult as I can see tangible benefits to the company should I proceed with the further education. Thanks again.

Carpenter

Carpenter said:

I don't think this will be too difficult as I can see tangible benefits to the company should I proceed with the further education.

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I've no doubts the company will also see the possible benefits. The biggest problem you (or anyone else that looks at this avenue) could have is trying to convince the company that they will reap the benefits and you won't simply upgrade job after you upgrade skills.

Carpenter said:

I've already submitted a written "Job description- where am I now/ where am I going"

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If you can tie in your "where am I going" as closely as possible with the employers structure/future work load it could/should help convince them of your long term plans to stay with the company.... hopefully making them more agreeable to invest in your long term future.