Where to get a copy of a public service contract?

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ClubMan

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A friend of mine is in full time permanent/pensionable employment covered by a public service or similar contract. He needs a copy of his contract of employment to check some details out pertaining to certified sick leave arrangements. I am aware of the general public service contract cover of 6 months full pay, 6 months half pay and then pension rates of pay for long term certified sick leave but he wants to be sure about the precise terms & conditions governing his employment in case they are different.

He has asked for a copy of this from his HR department but they seem to be unwilling or unable to provide this so far. They just referred to a letter of consent signed agreeing to the public service style contract/terms & conditions that was signed by the employees of this organization about 15 years ago. If it turns out that they cannot/will not provide the detailed contract/terms & conditions does anybody know if this information is available elsewhere?

Thanks a lot.
 
If your friend is a Civil Servant then the terms and conditions of employment are governed by the Civil Service Regulation Act 1956 (as amended). Similar arrangements will be in place for the relevant legislation establishing whatever part of the public sector your friend is working in. Sick leave arrangements are covered by Dept. of Finance Circulars in the first instance and I know that these are generally applicable throughout the Public Service, albeit with local amendments.

If there is an issue regarding sick leave, your friend's HR Division should be able to quote the relevant Circular upon which they are relying.

This website has most, if not all, of the Dept. of Finance Circulars going back to the foundation of the State:

http://circulars.gov.ie/
 
Would his/her union be able to provide a copy of a similar contract? Or be able to provide any assistance?
 
Thanks. I already suggested that but he says that the union (SIPTU) were useless any time he asked them for assistance with employment matters...
 
Why doesn't he just ask for the sick leave policy? In the HSE the sick leave scheme is dealt with by referring staff to the hand book.

In the HSE pension rates of pay for long term certified sick leave isn't automatically payable like the 6 months fill pay and half pay. It has to be approved.

Also it comes off your service so if you take 2 years pension rate of pay you lose that service for lump sum and pension.
 
Also it comes off your service so if you take 2 years pension rate of pay you lose that service for lump sum and pension.
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Do you not mean it's not reckonable for pension purposes? (lump sums/pensions are calculated based on reckonable service)
 
becky said:
Why doesn't he just ask for the sick leave policy? In the HSE the sick leave scheme is dealt with by referring staff to the hand book.
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He has asked for the handbook but HR have said that they don't have it and seem to be prevaricating about providing any specific info about the contract/terms & conditions/policies relevant to the job/role. The guy has just been diagnosed with a serious illness and could do without additional hassle...
 
Could they do a FOI / Data Protection request?

If no contract is provided, they cannot later rely on a contract/term. It would defer to a standard contract for that time/grade/body/time of appointment etc.
 
Luternau said:
Could they do a FOI / Data Protection request?

If no contract is provided, they cannot later rely on a contract/term. It would defer to a standard contract for that time/grade/body/time of appointment etc.
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Even establishing the public service (equivalent?) grade/role/job title seems to be difficult. Unfortunately I can't really post any more specific info for privacy reasons right now. Hopefully HR will eventually provide some clear and specific info about the contract/terms & conditions/policies. They have verbally said that the "normal" certified sick leave conditions apply - i.e. 6 months full pay, 6 months half pay, pension rate thereafter - but some documentary evidence to support all of this is desirable.

Thanks for the help and suggestions so far.
 
Hi Clubman,

Contracts for specific posts in the public service have only come into vogue in past 10 years or so. Normal recruitment into established grades was done by signing a one page 'terms and conditions' type document. Sick and annual leave and superannuation is governed by circulars issued from time to time.

Incidentally, I thought the sick leave had been halved from 6 months to 3 months certified, 7 days to 3 days uncertified etc,
 
Thanks Slim.

The person in question recalls seeing a book of terms & conditions and then signing a one page letter accepting these about 15-20 years ago. But nobody seems to know what exactly was in the book at this stage. I presume that it was the relevant circulars (and statutory instruments?). And HR seem as confused as anybody at the moment but said that they'll look into it. Part of the confusion may be that the organization is not strictly part of the public service per se (as far as I can tell) but operates under public service rules. As mentioned above I cannot be more explicit for privacy reasons.

So I guess the key thing is to ascertain which are the relevant circulars (and legislation?) in this case.

My understanding is that the changes/reductions in payment for certified sick leave kick in in 2014 but even then the old rules would apply to the illness in this situation.

Thanks for your help.
 
Hi Clubman,

You are right to look at the relevant circulars. Try looking here: http://www.finance.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?docid=-1&catid=28

I started in the Civil service 5 years ago, and I have the handbook (large lever arch file) i was given at the time on my desk. However a number of things in that have changed so I'll always root for the latest circular. Not the easiest thing to find.

If your friend is having no luck with their own HR it might be worth trying to contact D'Finance directly. it may not get them anywhere but sure no harm in trying.
 
Thanks a lot. Since there seems to be no single "contract" document per se I guess the key thing is to identify the relevant circulars (and legislation?) so at least that much is clear. Right now it's a case of waiting to hear back from HR in the organization itself to see what they come up with.
 

I would think that a union which is representing staff in that organisation would have a good handle on circulars and regs applicable in that area. They might be able to help?
 
Slim said:
I would think that a union which is representing staff in that organisation would have a good handle on circulars and regs applicable in that area. They might be able to help?
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See above:

ClubMan said:
Thanks. I already suggested that but he says that the union (SIPTU) were useless any time he asked them for assistance with employment matters...
Click to expand...
 
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