Where is the help for those paying their mortgages?

Would it not be possible, for the genuine cases, for the bank to put their mortgage 'on hold' for some agreed period - say 3 years? That way, for a genuine case who has lost their job and cant get one at the same level in the current economy, has 3 years in which to find a similar job, retrain or otherwise get back on their feet?

I think one of the big problems for genuine cases is falling into arrears and ending up in a debt trap that will take years to get out of.

Or am I just being an idealist?
 
Problem with cutting SW is there are a large body of people outta work (talking here about people who have been laid off and not the ones who have been on the dole all their lives).
A lot of these have some savings and are repaying their mortgage etc by dipping into savings while living in the extreme off the SW. If you cut it drastically then these people will then also be sent under completley and that i think is where the crux of the problem lies.
Finally that point by Liaconn on the rental market is a very good one. Something needs to be done quickly regards regulation here. In Europe many people live in a rental society all their lives however they have brilliant enforcement in place to protect them against unscrupulous landlords.
 
There has been a lot of legislation in the area of rental properties over the last few years.

Reading the rental section of the forum would lead me to believe that the majority of it favours the tenant over the landlord.

I do agree that the area is a bit of a mess though.

No reason not to repossess though.
 

Completely agree with you there. Our system here is absolutely ridiculous and this notion by many people that the system favours the tenant is ridiculous. I really feel favoured by the system having had my last two landlords refuse to pay me back my deposit and even after a judgement was secured through the PRTB with the first landlord I still haven't seen a cent of that money nearly two years later and the PRTB have done all in their power and I don't have the money to bring anybody to court. This is because I didn't buy a house I couldn't afford during "boom" times and now can't get a mortgage eventhough I can well afford one.
 
redbhoy said:
Have you tried the small claims court Pixie??
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Not to drag the thread off topic but... i was told by the small claims court that my application didn't qualify to be dealt with by them. I was under the impression that tenancies could be dealt with by them once the sum is under €2,000 but apparently my tenancy and the property didn't fall into that bracket. In fairness this happened 2 years ago so i can't really remember all the ins and outs apart from the fact that I was left out of pocket.
 

One story doesn't mean that the system favours the landlord. And anyway you won your case - just cos you can't get the money from the landlord doesn't mean that the systems favours him.

The general consensus on the board is that the system favours the tenant, especially in terms of refusing to pay rent, wrecking the house etc etc.
 

I didn't say that one story proves that the system favours the landlord. Although, it most certainly doesn't favour the tenant.

At the end of the day for every "my tenant wrecked the house and did a runner" story there is a "my landlord never gave me back my deposit" story.

Anyway, moving on, off topic.
 
Great to see most of the posters here are full of the milk of Human Kindness.
 
Getting back on topic, I listened with more sadness about the property tax today on the radio.

Of course the usual suspects sound like they will escape the payment, which means that the majority of the tax will come in from the middle earners, again.

Do the Gov not realise that these folk are not overly flush with money? Many people who are classed as 'middle earners' are probably struggling under big bills too and just surviving. Yet they are the ones who will be expected to bail everyone else out.

There's only so much blood you can get out of a stone.
 

Very much agree with this. We rent, didn't get carried away with debt, resisted buying an overpriced property despite being called stupid and laughed at by our friends and peers. If we don't pay our rent we get evicted. Simple.

We would be classed as middle earners, and we just about survive for now, come the inevitable hits we will take in the budget, plus the fact my job in March and no sign of any jobs down the line, I genuinely have no idea what how we are going to make it. Yet people who borrowed recklessly, lied on mortgage and loan applications and treated anyone who didn't buy buy buy like a social leper now expect to be bailed out by "the government" ( do people genuinely not realised it's the tax payers who pay?!) Is this magical Government going to subsidise my rent, my electricity etc as a pat on the head for behaving myself?

It makes me sick to think what people who have never worked a day, and/ or don't and never had paid a penny in tax and prsi get away with and it's getting worse now having to listen to people calling for a "nama for the people"

it makes me wonder why I should even bother looking for a job and why my husband works so hard to keep his...we'd probably be better off sitting around sponging of the state for the rest of our lives....( except we both have a bit of self respect left...just)
 
Just wanted to giv emy imput, We bought in 2006, a good distance away from family due to the increasing costs, we had low paid jobs but just managed to cope. We married and then had a baby, when baby ccame along we realised that the distance we moved was just too far away from family and also due to the travelling time we would never see our child. So we tried to sell the house to move back closer, no Joy even though the house was very well priced, so we rented out the house and got a second mortgage!!!!! In hindsight it would have been better to rent a place closer to our families but hindsight is a grat thing(can be said for the past 10 years!) So now with the budget looming we have two properties which we willl have to pay property tax on as well as 2 x life insurance 2 x house insurance, also have to contribute to the rental money as it dosent cover our mortgage, a mortgage on our family home and a toddler to look after with another Baby on the way!!
I would love to sell the first house so we could just concentrate on our family home and bills but its just not possible at the moment and am worried that with all the cuts and taxing on people we may well end up with no house and listening to the radio and news on tv makes the suitation worse! Both my husband and i work but are not on big money at all so it kind of feels like were in big trouble! Sometimes i feel like just skipping out of the counrty and never coming back!
 

If the ERSI have there way you will be paying €80 per house per month after the budget in property tax based on their recommendations this morning.
Sometimes I think these academics walk around with their heads up their arses.
 
The_Banker said:
If the ERSI have there way you will be paying €80 per house per month after the budget in property tax based on their recommendations this morning.
Sometimes I think these academics walk around with their heads up their arses.
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I would be surprised if something like this wasn't brought in

I see those on low incomes and social welfare would be exempt, leaving those on middle incomes to bear the brunt.
 
Sarah said:
Both my husband and i work but are not on big money at all so it kind of feels like were in big trouble! Sometimes i feel like just skipping out of the counrty and never coming back!
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You're not the only ones thinking that. I expect lots of people to do it over the coming years.
 
Birroc said:
You're not the only ones thinking that. I expect lots of people to do it over the coming years.
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I already know people who have given up and left. In any other country it is worth your while to work and you will always better yourself. Not here though.
 
Hate to be a spoilsport but mortgage payers are arguably the most subsidised constituency in this country and probably on planet earth. BoI has recently admitted that it costs over 10% for it to borrow funds. It would cost the government over 8%. Yet because of their electoral clout mortgagees are kept on low single figures.

I know people who say that the only bright spot in this crisis is that at least their mortgage repayments have fallen.

That is not to deny the real hardship of those who have lost their jobs but again the one consolation is that their mortgage payments have fallen.

Negative equity is not per se financially crippling. It is of course a huge disappointment to those who understandably looked forward to their homes being an accumulation of wealth just as it had always been in the past.
 
The reality is that there are many people in this country in serious negative equity who cannot pay their mortgages, and there will be many more in that boat if tax and interest rates increase as expected.

IMO it is not at all unreasonable or unjust to try to do something for those people, if at least part of the reason for those tax increases is to bail out the banks.

Put yourself in their shoes for a moment.

Imagine you bought your family home in 2006 for €400,000. The last house in your estate sold for €250,000 six months ago. There are five houses with for sale signs up but nothing has sold since. So your home is at least €150k in negative equity but there are no buyers even at that price. Your mortgage is €1900 per month and most of that is interest. You are a civil engineer who has lost his job. Your wife is a public servant who has had a reasonable salary cut (levy) but is expecting more serious cuts (and possibly job losses) coming down the line. The family have one car loan (€120 per month), small amount of credit card debt (€100), and two children. The family have almost exhausted their savings paying interest only on their mortgage over the last year and a half but have reached the end of the line, particularly because his job seekers benefit is up and he doesn't qualify for job seekers allowance.

SO she's earning say €2k per month. Food, light and heat, clothing, school expenses and general expenses for a family of four - say €1400 per month. Leaving €600 per month to pay for car loan, credit card and mortgage.

Assume the house is repossessed and sold at a fire sale. Sale price €180,000, less costs of sale and repossession - about €160,000 comes off what the couple owe. So they are now homeless and they still owe the bank €240,000 or a monthly payment of €1,141 over thirty years! Guess what - they still can't afford to make that payment, and now they will have to rely on the state to provide housing. The bank writes off the loss which adds to the cost of the bail out, which she is partially funding through increased taxes! Where is the sense in that??

So some common sense is required.

What about this as a solution:

Value of the house is assessed at say €225,000 or 56% of the mortgage. The couple transfer 44% of the ownership of the house to the bank in consideration for forgiveness of the balance of the mortgage. The couple now owe €225k. They can just about pay interest only on that and agree to do so until he gets a job, at which point they will start repaying capital. The couple agree to keep the house, maintain and insure it for at least 10 years, after which they can sell if if they wish. On a sale the bank gets 44% of the sale price.

Fast forward 15 years. The house is sold for €350,000. The bank is entitled to 44% of that or €154,000. The couple are entitled to 56% or €196,000. The balance due on the mortgage is €136,000. When that is paid the couple are left with €60,000 from the sale. The bank has been paid the following:
€109,000 in interest over 15 years.
€89,000 in capital repayments over 15 years.
€154,000 from the sale
Total €352,000.

Obviously this is less than ideal for the bank. It has suffered a loss of €48k excluding cost of funds. But in a repossession it suffers a loss of €240k, the couple lose their home with all the dramatic social problems that causes (and ultimately costs society).

So what's wrong with trying to find a creative solution?
 
Kate10 said:
So what's wrong with trying to find a creative solution?
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Nothing whatsoever Kate. Creative thinking is the only thing that'll help stop the untold suffering.
Heard on the radio yesterday that this crowd, http://www.newbeginning.ie/ , have had a small success in the courts with relation to a couple due to be evicted. Hopefully many more to come.
 
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