What to do on a Sunday/replacing mass

[Janet]

This is something I've thought about in the past and was brought back to me by this quote in a thread on unionism:

The original poster made the point that membership of unions is down; some ArchBishop or othermade the point in the last few weeks that participation in society in general is down, which is seen in union, church, and political sectors seeing a loss of membership. This is not down to the Indo demonising unions, this is reflective of something deeper in society in general.

Didn't want to hijack that thread though.

As a teenager and during college etc. I was quite religious and did go to mass most Sundays, usually I sang with a folk group at mass as well. Now somewhat older and having done more thinking about the subject I have lost what faith I had and no longer attend mass (haven't been able to bring myself to write to the Pope letting him know I no longer consider myself part of his church yet tho that's a whole other issue!). I do find that it leaves a gap in my life somewhat though and I think the biggest part of this is not having to go to mass on Sunday. A Swedish friend once told me that in Sweden it's not as common for people to attend church but that many (perhaps most?) people participate in committees which usually meet on a Sunday too. These committees may have had a political or social or hobby focus, really could be about anything but the main reason was for people to come together and form some kind of community I suppose. At least that was my understanding of it.

With the decline in numbers going to church I was just wondering what, if anything, other people who have decided not to attend religious services on a Sunday (I do know some religions have other holy days but in terms of Irish traditional life, Sunday is it) do instead and if anyone has chosen something instead of mass but which still has a community focus.

P.S. Please don't focus on the religious aspect of this (i.e. whethr it's right or wrong to not attend mass) - I'd prefer to try and keep the thread on topic and not see it degenerate into a theological debate, which, if memory serves correctly, has been done to death and resulted in lots of threads being closed before. Thanks.

 

[MissRibena]

I know what you mean Janet. As an atheist/ex-Catholic/whatever you like, I don't go to mass anymore either and I really don't know how you replace the community aspect of going to mass. I believe that both myself and the community suffers because it is so difficult to participate or even know what is going on locally without going to mass.

I've recently moved a couple of miles out of my home town to a local village where I half-know a lot of the people, shops etc but it is still a struggle to feel "part" of things in any way when I don't work locally. I don't have children and think I would have many more opportunities to get involved if I had. In time, I'm sure I'll discover (or maybe start) Tidy Towns or a heritage or arts group or something else like that which would help.

Funnily enough, I have had no problem replacing (if it ever existed for me) the spiritual side of my catholicism.

It's probably a little obtuse but it does seem that a fairly large proportion of the population have replaced mass with shopping and/or DIY. Not that that's a completely bad thing because I still remember the mind-numbingly boring wet Sundays we had when I was young.

Rebecca

 

[ClubMan]

Don't forget that there are a lot of people in Ireland, especially nowadays, for whom Sunday is and never was the "day of rest" - e.g. Jews, Muslims, atheists etc. I don't think that it's necessarily safe to assume that mass attendance necessarily has a community focus for most people other than the fact that they attend in the company of others in their community. As opposed to people who choose to become actively involved in church/community organisations. In many cases people attend mass, maybe have a chat (often not in my experience) and then just go home. It's not difficult to imagine all sorts of alternative activities that those who don't participate in mass decide to fill that hour or so with instead.

 

[MissRibena]

Conversly where I live most of the immigrants (Brazillian and Polish form the vast majority) are Catholic and do attend mass because they have bits of the mass in other languages now, I believe and sometimes have dedicated masses. So by not going to mass there is one less chance to meet these people too.

The things I miss most are the announcements and leaflets with all the community news about groups meeting, appeals for various things from blood donors to charitable donations to volunteers to help out with community games etc. etc. It was also a great way of knowing who died and who had been born in a timely way - everyone still tends to go to all their neighbours removals here even if you barely know them. I too used to be in the choir and there is no local non-religious singing group/outlet.

I know things are changing and that the mix of nationalities is changing even where I live so it will be interesting to see what, if anything, emerges to replace the community fulcrum role mass played up until recently.

Rebecca

 

[pricilla]

There was an article somewhere recently saying that the big shopping centres are the new cathedrals, and that loads of people end up in them on a Sunday, since not so many are going to mass anymore. Was at B&Q on Sunday (after mass) and the place was packed full of people.
Since reading the article, every time I walk through a shopping centre I always think of that song "No religion" I think it's Van Morrison, and I always feel a bit sorry for the people, not because they don't have religion, but because they seem to be wandering around aimlessly, and are not being part of anything. And in this type of a society if someone needs help or guidance or somebody dies belonging to you, shopping is of no use to you then it just makes you feel empty.
This must be the most meandering post ever, so to get to the point, yes, Sunday is a great day and it would be lovely to go to something productive of a Sunday if you're not religious that makes you feel part of a group, so that you could make friends, contribute and build up a support group for yourself.

 

[CCOVICH]

There was an article somewhere recently saying that the big shopping centres are the new cathedrals, and that loads of people end up in them on a Sunday, since not so many are going to mass anymore. Was at B&Q on Sunday (after mass) and the place was packed full of people.

If it's any use, I know that the Blanchardstown Centre and ILAC Centre (probably more besides) have oratories/chapels, thus allowing combination of old world and new world religions .

Seriously, I do think that fewer people going to mass implies a loss of community compared to what it was in Ireland (We don't go ourselves, so I'm not being critical here).

Does anyone else who doesn't attend mass/service/whatever at the weekend do anything else that affords them the opportunity to interact with their community/neighbours, or even take a half hour to refect on their lives(note-I am not advocating any of this, I don't do it myself, but these are what I believe to be the 'valuable' aspects of mass)?

 

[ClubMan]

There was an article somewhere recently saying that the big shopping centres are the new cathedrals, and that loads of people end up in them on a Sunday, since not so many are going to mass anymore.

Well, seeing that the local clergy (Catholic and CoI) actually blessed the Dundrum Town Centre as part of an ecumenical service when it opened it's hardly surprising. Wonder what This post will be deleted if not edited immediately would have made of that sort of carry on...

I walk through a shopping centre I always think of that song "No religion" I think it's Van Morrison, and I always feel a bit sorry for the people, not because they don't have religion, but because they seem to be wandering around aimlessly, and are not being part of anything. And in this type of a society if someone needs help or guidance or somebody dies belonging to you, shopping is of no use to you then it just makes you feel empty.

I hate malls at the best of times but I would never be so presumptuous as to feel sorry for fellow shoppers just because I (probably mistakenly) assume that their presence there reflects the fact that their lives are somehow hollow or lacking something. People like shopping. Probably more than attending religious services in many cases which are often meaningless to them. So what? That's their prerogative. I'd have more respect for somebody who shopped til they dropped because they enjoyed it rather than somebody participating in some hollow (to them) religious service by rote or just to keep others (e.g. family, community etc.) happy.

This must be the most meandering post ever, so to get to the point, yes, Sunday is a great day and it would be lovely to go to something productive of a Sunday if you're not religious that makes you feel part of a group, so that you could make friends, contribute and build up a support group for yourself.

Why not do some voluntary work or something like that so? There are lots of worthy causes (many of them not linked to any religious organisation or denomination) that are always looking for volunteers.

Does anyone else who doesn't attend mass/service/whatever at the weekend do anything else that affords them the opportunity to interact with their community/neighbours, or even take a half hour to refect on their lives(note-I am not advocating any of this, I don't do it myself, but these are what I believe to be the 'valuable' aspects of mass)?

I interact with my family, friends, colleagues and neighbours most days of the week. Sunday is no different or special in that regard.

To be honest I don't buy into this fall-off in mass (or other religious service) attendance reflecting some sort of disconnect with or degradation of community life. All I remember from mass going as a child before I had adopted/developed my own belief system was one of people doing things by rote, superficial familiarity (e.g. I remember the winces when it came to the sign of peace in particular) and people trying to outdo each other in terms of dressing up and flaunting their wealth and supposed success. I myself can certainly do without such community involvement to be honest.

 

[CCOVICH]

All I remember from mass going as a child before I had adopted/developed my own belief system was one of people doing things by rote, superficial familiarity (e.g. I remember the winces when it came to the sign of peace in particular)

Surely being able to offer your hand to a fellow human being is something that we should all be able to do without too much effort or worry? It may just be a gesture to some, but I think that in the course of mass/service it symbolises much much more (forgiveness, tolerance, friendship, equality etc. etc.-although I know that religions aren't always big on these traits themselves).

 

[Murt10]

I recently started attending mass again so as to set some sort of an example for the kids. I regard it as a necessary pain in the ar*e, but what can you do.

Last Sunday during mass in a local church I was asked "Is that really God's blood or is he making it up?"

Anyway, if I have to go, I actually like driving into the Gospel Mass in Gardiner St. (note parking meters do not operate on Sunday)




Murt

 

[ClubMan]

Last Sunday during mass in a local church I was asked "Is that really God's blood or is he making it up?"

How did you answer? Assuming that this was a Catholic mass then, as any good Catholic will know, at first it isn't and then it is. However, in my experience not many Catholics have even heard of transubstantiation never mind understand the significance of it.

Just curious - why do you feel the need to bring the kids to mass? What can you do? Lots of other things. Personally I feel that being brought to mass by somebody who considers it a pain in the This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language isn't much of an example to them really. But that's just my opinion.

 

[casiopea]

Hi Janet,

Do you think as well as the community aspect of mass you might be missing the reflective aspect? Religion and spirituality aside I found that mass was always a place where I had some quiet time.

If this was the case on a sunday morning you could do some yoga or mediation. I find both disciplines relatively hard, its strange how difficult it is to clear the mind, mediate and relax.

 

[redbhoy]

"The original poster made the point that membership of unions is down; some ArchBishop or othermade the point in the last few weeks that participation in society in general is down, which is seen in union, church, and political sectors seeing a loss of membership. This is not down to the Indo demonising unions, this is reflective of something deeper in society in general."

"Participation in society in general is down" due to the fact that people have to struggle for the entire week in work and spend hours commuting to work therefore having little or no time during the week to to household chores or to get the shopping in.
When i was growing up (still am though), Mother had all the afore mentioned, completed during the week leaving Sunday as the day of rest where we could all go to Mass, go visiting the relatives or whatever else was on the agenda.

Not everybody really knows their neighbours anymore due to the pace of living today which leads to a less caring community and society in general.

 

[ubiquitous]

I'm not at all religious but I do find there are major benefits to me from going to Mass on the occasions that I can. Funny as it sounds, I find that its great to spend half an hour or 40 minutes of the week not thinking about anything in particular - I suppose some people would call this reflection. Also the benefits of meeting and bumping into people afterwards is invaluable in staying in touch with the local community.

The same applies to membership of local sports clubs and organisations.

I don't really buy into the idea that frequenting shopping centres is somehow a replacement for going to Mass. When I was a kid I loved going to Mass because we were let run amok (well, relatively...) in a local corner shop on the way home. Besides, unless things have changed dramatically in the past year or two, I doubt if that many people frequent the likes of Blanchardstown or the Square at 10 or 11 on Sunday morning when otherwise they might be at Mass. What they choose to do in the afternoon is really a separate issue.

 

[fobs]

by CCovich
or even take a half hour to refect on their lives

I don't attend mass every Sunday but since my daughter was 3 decided to brin her most Sunday mornings and we find it a great time together and have a nice ritual. My husband minds the little fella (he doesn't attend mass except for funerals etc)
and my daughter and I go.

I do find it a great time to reflect on the week and also sometimes even a sentence of the mass will relate to me. I don't spend that much time when I am not racing around after 2 small kids,working fulltime,watching telly,socialising to just reflect on life and Mass is great for this. Maybe I am being hypocrytical going to mass for this purpose but it works for me and i always feel calm and happy after attending.

We always meet up with a few people outside the grounds then get the papers & sweets for being good and then go to my parents for a 1/2hour for a chat.
It does add a bit of structure to the day and my daughter loves going.

I do also like a bit of retail therapy but try to avoid the shops on a sunday as it is the one day the family are together and not racing around. We usually have the big roast dinner,desert and go to the local park.