what should i do with a mobile scam?

This carry on makes me so angry. It happened to my mother before Christmas, she's an older user and couldn't figure out where her credit was going, she thought she was leaving the phone "off the hook" or something but eventually realised it might be something to do with the strange texts she was regularly receiving, and deleting straight away as she presumed they were nothing to do with her.

I did a bit of research and ranted at her service provider, my mother also contacted them and complained (and told them I was looking up the internet etc.!), and somehow got refunded enough credit to keep her happy.

A few snippets from the stuff I looked up are quoted below, hopefully they may be of some use. I had hoped to follow up on this situation soon after Christmas but various other pressures have put it on the back boiler. But I really think that TDs, Councillors etc. need to be contacted by large numbers of people in an effort to do something about this.

From Regtel's site, a few quotes:

"Do you dispute that you subscribed?
In order to verify a subscription to a Premium Rate Service, you need to request from the Service Provider - using the menu below - the date and time that is on their records of your mobile telephone having subscribed to the service."
[broken link removed] - you can check who is sending unwanted texts by entering the 5 digit code -
"In the event that you discover this service was unsolicited, please write or email us providing all the relevant information to
[email protected] or Cresent Hall, Mount Street Cresent, Dublin 2."

" If you have subscribed to a SMS service you should receive:
  • An opt-out information service at regular intervals
  • On spending €20, you will receive a free reminder message containing details of the subscription service, charges and frequency of charges and how to exit the service by texting the word stop.
You should also know that:
  • An Interactive Service must not exceed €10 in any one transaction per day.
  • Unsubscribing must only cost a standard rate charge.
  • If your child has entered a subscription service but does not think they did, were they aware that all advertisements carry an age warning. You should contact the Service Provider for the details. If your child did not interact with the service, you should raise the issue of a refund directly with the Service Provider."
" If you have tried to unsubscribe or have another query regarding Premium Rate SMS Services, then call our Call Save number 1850 741 741 and speak to a live operator (this call will cost you in total 6.35 cent inclusive of VAT)."

I don't know where I got these quotes from, I'm guessing it's Regtel:
11.1.6 Service Providers are permitted to charge Consumers, whether on a subscription basis or otherwise, only for specific PSMS services and content which the Service Provider can demonstrate to the satisfaction of the Regulator the Consumer in question has agreed to receive and pay for.
11.1.8 Text messages sent and received by Consumers must be stored by the Service Provider for a period of six months from the date of the message.

11.3.6 Where a Consumer has subscribed to a PSMS Subscription Service and fails to respond to a sent message within 40 days, the Consumer must be opted out or unsubscribed automatically from that an/or related PSMS Subscription Services and must be removed from the database. The charge for unsubscribing/opting out be no more than the standard text charge.

Promotion/Marketing
11.4.4 For the period that a consumer remains on a direct marketing database, Service Providers must retain records of:
(i) the Consumer opting into the direct marketing database;
(ii) the Consumer subscribing to a Subscription Service; and
(iii) the sending and receiving number of the date, time and content of direct marketing promotions.

The Regulator will investigate complaints … within a three month period from the date the Call complained of was made …

If anyone is seriously interested in campaigning against these texts I would be happy to join in such a campaign and hope to have a bit more time by the end of June.
 
Blinck phoned me this morning to advise me when and how the texts started. They basically said I signed up on 4 April by putting my number on their website. To which I replied I had not and if someone had done so this should not be allowed as anyone could do that. They said you normally get a password sent to your mobile which you need to put into their website to reconfirm subscription. When I reconfirmed I had not done any of this and I wanted a refund they put me on hold and then said that they were having a technical glitch at the time so this is why the deductions started. A very suspicious response.....

Then then advised that 57.50 had been deducted from my call credit and I needed to email them with my details to arrange for a refund cheque to be sent out to me. Have sent email off this morning advising I want a response and cheque in post within 24 hours. I await their response!
 
right.its alomost been a week and a half now. still now calls. Rang them again there, and they said there'sa back log and he'll mark my case down as priority..duno about that,have a feeling i migh have to call a lot to catch up with the "back log"
 
I asked O2 if they could block all premium-rate and non-personal SMS messages to/from my phone....guess what? They can't (or don't want to).
Click to expand...

O2 let you block 'adult' content from your phone, this should cover at least a subset of these services. No harm in doing it if you've no intention of ever using any of them. You can do this on their site also.
 
Last edited:
Yes, it is a sick joke, and it has been ongoing for a long time.

The mobile phone operators should have responsibilities.. as it is they effectively facilitate the theft by difficult to contact rogue companies.

For example, if you have a dodgy or disputed charge on your credit card, you ring the credit card company and demand to see the authorisation for the charge, if it can't be found you get a refund. Simple.

For phones it should be the same, you contact the mobile phone operator (i.e vodafone) and demand to see the authorisation, if they can't produce it they must refund you... the current situation is that they say you must contact the thieves who have signed you up without consent and request that they stop robbing you... as I said this is tantamount to the mobile phone operators facilitating the theft.

This country is a joke etc etc, as regards broadband provision, premium SMSs etc, COMREG and REGTEL are useless, REGTEL apparently had 30,000 complaints about this in a year, over 90 a day and yet the situation persists. It's clear that in unregulated industries rogues will prosper...

Cheers
Joe
 
JoeBallantin said:
Yes, it is a sick joke, and it has been ongoing for a long time.

The mobile phone operators should have responsibilities.. as it is they effectively facilitate the theft by difficult to contact rogue companies.

For example, if you have a dodgy or disputed charge on your credit card, you ring the credit card company and demand to see the authorisation for the charge, if it can't be found you get a refund. Simple.
Click to expand...
I absolutely agree. Here's some background I found in the UK. It may throw some light as to why this type of billing fraud is being allowed and protected here.

The trade bodies representing the mobile operators and premium rate service/content providers lobbied the UK government for mobile accounts to be exempt from the financial laws and regulations that cover credit/debit card accounts.
This was immediately after the mobile operators payed the UK government £22.4 billion for their billing/operating licences.

In the UK the mobile operators take between 20% to 50% of the revenue before passing the rest on to companies like Zamano and Blinck.
Does anybody know what the revenue share agreement is in Ireland?
 
Technologist said:
I asked O2 if they could block all premium-rate and non-personal SMS messages to/from my phone....guess what? They can't (or don't want to).
Click to expand...


They cant, i asked them this already. By law they have to provide a service for customers to allow them to subscribe to these services.
However they can stop calls made to premium rate numbers, adult numbers & international numbers etc.
However, taking away a customers ability to subscribe to ringtones/games/quizzes/pictures etc is something that they simply cant do. Its not a matter of not wanting to do it.
 
Mely said:
They cant, i asked them this already. By law they have to provide a service for customers to allow them to subscribe to these services. [...] Its not a matter of not wanting to do it.
Click to expand...
I'd be interested to hear what law requires this.

conner said:
In the UK the mobile operators take between 20% to 50% of the revenue before passing the rest on to companies like Zamano and Blinck.
Does anybody know what the revenue share agreement is in Ireland?
Click to expand...
This would be interesting to know, too.
 
Technically speaking, there is nothing to prevent someone who had money stolen in this way to report it to the Gardai as theft and insist on a prosecution. I would imagine that the mobile phone records would be cast iron proof that money was taken. If the company couldnt prove they had your permission, then they'd face criminal prosecution. Whereas Comreg etc are regulators, they are not criminal prosecutors.
 
csirl said:
Technically speaking, there is nothing to prevent someone who had money stolen in this way to report it to the Gardai as theft and insist on a prosecution.
Click to expand...
Apart from the fact that the victims of any crime don't get to 'insist' on a prosecution. The decision to prosecute lies with Garda Superintendent or the DPP, depending on the seriousness of the crime.
 
You have the same problem here as we have in the UK. Companies like Zamano operate in the 'regulated' sector. The police do not accept complaints from the public concerning companies in any of the regulated sectors. They always refer them to the regulator responsible for that sector. Only the regulator can report these companies to the police.

The regulators then largely ignore these complaints. Comreg and Regtel have been protecting these companies from criminal investigation for years.

this is the result
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/a...rderous-rage-against-rogue-texts-1428415.html

remember o2 and the other Network operators take a large percentage of the money that's being stolen

Zamano is part of The Digital Hub in Dublin
[broken link removed]
The Digital Hub is an Irish Government initiative to create an international centre of excellence for knowledge, innovation and creativity focused on digital content and technology enterprises.
 
right i duno can i still reply this. been a freakin long while. i was on holidays and i didnt get any voice msg or anything from them!! so i called. my last call was meant to be the 20th May. But she said it was the 8th?(the first time i complaint!!) and then she told me because i opt for the premium txt i dont get a refund. So i told her about the million STOP txts i have sent. then she said she have to get some ppl to investigate on it.....and it'll take bout 4 working days...

man..what do you think guys. think i should just ring them everyday?

-----------
also just called regtel. told me they'll ring the company and see will they respond in 5-7 days. and if they dont. i need top lodge a formal complaint against Zamano
 
I have recently been getting premium rate messages from these *******s Zamano. They come in the form of a web text message called humour.ie that you cannot reply STOP to.

I called O2 and they provided me with the 57175 number to send STOP to. So I did it and got an unsubscribed message.

I was done for approx 30.00 before i stopped it.

Question: Did anyone successfully get a Refund off these crooks?
 
I have a similar query. I got this message a couple of days ago -

"FreeMsg: Welcome to the Tonesuwant club. This is a subscription service at £1.50 per month". From 80160.

I don't subscribe to any text messaging services. I rang o2 who advised that they do not have any unsubscribe details for third party 80160 and suggested regtel. I went to the regtel website and entered the five digit code but they don't have any matching results.


I'm confused as the original text said free message and £1.50 in the same message. Does anyone know if I'm being charged for this? If so, how do I get out of this service which I definitely did not subscribe to?

Thanks
 
Thanks for that TreeTiger. I will go after them for the money so.
 
This thing continues to bug me and I've been thinking about the best way to approach it. One angle you can pursue would be to submit a request under the Data Protection Acts - ask for infomation they hold about you.

They maintain a record of your mobile number - I can't remember for sure, but I would be pretty sure this information is regarded as personally identifiable information on you as it can be used to identify you. They can't deny they hold this information since they use it to send messages.

Linked to this record, they have to have details of where they got it (data protection) and because they use it for financial purposes they have to retain the records for VAT, audit, etc . . . purposes.

So, they must hold on to the billing details for you and they must provide this under the Data Protection Acts. They cannot claim it's anything like 'commercially sensitive information' either since your right of access to your data still stands.

If nothing else this will at least mean that you get your full money refunded by them. And don't let them get away with only refunding the amount they received (your charge, minus the carrier amount, minus VAT, etc . . .) instead of the amount you were charged.

I can't believe this situation continues - it's hard to see it as anything other than high street robbery. And I can't believe that the carriers continue to facilitate it - pure greed. And I also can't believe that the 'regulator' hasn't gone stomping in somewhere and shut someone down.

I think I'm going to set up in business next week. I'll sign up with the carriers (give them 50%, I'm not greedy) and then use their networks to send SMS messages to people saying "Umm, you said I could deduct €4 from your account" and BOOM, take €4 from their credit with their carriers approval. When people complain I'll spin most of them around the place until they give up, and then when some of them don't drop it I will give them a tennr for their troubles while pocketing the other €50 I took from their account. God, this money making game is easy.

z
 
mik_da_man said:
I had a similar problem a good while ago.
Your service provider should be able to give you a contact number using the shortcode that sent you the messages.
If they persist to send messages after you un-subscribed then they should refund the money. I got mine back but only after a good few phone calls
It's was not easy
Mik
Click to expand...

The same thing was happened to my then 9 year old son about 2 years ago. He subscribed to a ring tone provider and before he knew it, it was taking 6 euro per week without his or my knowledge. I got the number from the service provider, they were so helpful and gave me loads of advice before I rang the company involved. Eventually after an hour on the phone (after I dropped 'legal action' into the conversation they said they would give me a full refund. I rang everyday until I received the cheque for 82 euro !
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top