What is the obsession with protecting Ulster Bank jobs?

Well I think in general it's a good idea to protect anyones job if possible, highly unlikely these days that any bank will keep on staff just for the craic, if they can get rid of them they will but no harm to try and absorb some of them with the loans if practical. There won't be many replacement jobs out there for the bulk of the staff made redundant.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
If ptsb can take over all the home loans and service them with the existing staff, then that is what would be best for customers.

Keeping jobs for the sake of keeping jobs is terribly inefficient.

Brendan
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Listening to the Chief Executive of Ulster Bank on Radio 1 this morning, it sounds like the amount of staff ultimately transferring to any purchasing organisation will be minimal, notwithstanding any indications made at this stage to the contrary.

The reality is that UB staff will most likely be offered voluntary redundancy over the coming months and years. No acquiring entity will have any interest in taking staff under the Transfer of Undertakings Regulations.

Even though, for example, it’s apparently “agreed in principle” that AIB’s proposed acquisition of the loan book will see staff from UB transferring to AIB, I ultimately see the number of employees transferring to AIB as minimal.
 
What really annoyed me was the Trade Union representative saying on Morning Ireland something along the lines of

"Consumers are very well protected in this country. So we must make it the absolute no. 1 priority to protect jobs."

Brendan
 
Jobs will be protected to the minimal extent possible from the banks’ perspective i.e. not at all. That’s the reality. It’s not popular to say this, but on any asset sale of this nature, the staff are merely numbers on a page. UB’s focus now is to wind down and get gone out of Ireland. Any purchaser will seek to minimise acquiring financial obligations - it’ll come down to redundancy.

It will start as a voluntary redundancy scheme. Then if there are staff left over, it will be compulsory.

Any residual staff left who happen to fall within the TUPE regulations and who are obliged to be taken on by the acquirer (eg any remaining UB loan servicing staff who may transfer to AIB as part of the loan sale) may then transfer, if at all.

It’s likely that any redundancy scheme offered by a seller is done on better terms than any purchaser will offer down the road.
 
Jayom75 said:
It’s not popular to say this, but on any asset sale of this nature, the staff are merely numbers on a page.
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It might not be popular to say it but it should be said more often. People need to realize this and prepare for it by ensuring they are always employable elsewhere and also by saving a rainy day fund to cope with a loss of salary.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
They will avail of this and move on to new and often better jobs.

Brendan
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Do bank tellers have transferable skills, in general? I always regarded it as one of those “institutionalised” professions, where it’s a job for life.

Monbretia said:
Maybe those based in Dublin, there will be slim pickings jobwise in rural towns for ex bank staff.
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Are there many Ulster Bank branches in rural Irish towns?
I’m from Cork and larger towns like Mallow have an UB branch but smaller rural towns, e.g. Charleville., do not.
Maybe it’s different in Ulster counties. Apparently there is only one bank in Ballyjamesduff (pop. 2,600), an Ulster Bank.
 
EasilyAmused said:
Are there many Ulster Bank branches in rural Irish towns?
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Well I'm calling anything outside the main cities rural :) Tralee & Killarney both have UB branches for example.

As for transferable skills, yes to another financial type scenario as many would be QFA for what that is worth but there is not exactly a boom in financial type jobs, there is a lot of young staff there and a fair old turnover of them in recent years so they have a better chance of picking up something as a lot would be college graduates. Some of the long timers will be most hit, yes they will get the biggest package but if you're hovering around the 50ish mark and not in a main city then good luck with finding work at all not to mind a better job! Too experienced/qualified for many jobs according to employers and I always found that when you were old enough to be a parent of the interviewer you were on a hiding to nothing! :) 50ish is very young to be on the scrap heap, again possibly my own personal experience is colouring my view of this but I wasn't alone among my colleagues in that bracket and my experiences in the past.

The standard answer used always is sure you could pick up something like the local shop or the till in Tesco but you quickly find that Tesco etc has more than enough people looking for jobs than someone who never worked a till in their life, it just doesn't happen.
 
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EasilyAmused said:
Are there many Ulster Bank branches in rural Irish towns?
I’m from Cork and larger towns like Mallow have an UB branch but smaller rural towns, e.g. Charleville., do not.
Maybe it’s different in Ulster counties. Apparently there is only one bank in Ballyjamesduff (pop. 2,600), an Ulster Bank.
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Ulster Bank at one point had close to 200 branches in the Republic and has already reduced this to 88 branches by rounds of closures in 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2017. In Cork currently there are 2 branches in/near the city (Patrick St and Douglas), 2 cashless Mortgage Centres (Winthrop Street and Wilton, and three branches in the County (Midleton, Mallow and Bandon). Closures in recent years include South Mall, Blackpool, Carrigaline, Ballincollig, Fermoy. Some of the northern counties were harder hit as they were Ulster Bank’s traditional heartland and had longstanding UB branches or Sub Offices in villages as well as towns.

You are correct about it being the last bank branch in Ballyjamesduff. Ironically, the closure of that branch will help copper fasten the position of the post office, especially given that over 30% of its population are non nationals who tend to use FX services a lot.

And I'd agree with Montbretia; whatever about the bright young things and those close to retirement any staff who are in or around 50 and based outside of Dublin/Cork/Limerick/Galway will find it difficult to pick up another job on anything like the same T&Cs, especially as the majority of these will have little in the way of formal qualifications apart from a Leaving Cert. But that is the same in many wind-up situations and a hell of a lot better than the way of the likes of the way Debenham's staff were treated for example.
 
Some of this discussion reminds me of Norman Tebbit in 1980s Britain. If you’re 50 and have spent your life working in a bank in a small town, maybe you haven’t got great prospects. It’s a Trade Union’s role to stand up for you. Fine to disagree with them but to be annoyed seems to be missing the point that the people most affected by these will be those who will lose their jobs, particularly those who won’t easily walk into another one.
 
But if those jobs are no longer required? Why should branches be kept open?

The world changes. Businesses change. By your reasoning, we would still have horse drawn carriages instead of cars out of sympathy to the carriage men.

Those most affected will be mortgage holders and other customers and they should be prioritised.

The employees who have worked their all their lives will get generous redundancy and generous pensions.

Brendan
 
Brendan Burgess said:
Those most affected will be mortgage holders and other customers and they should be prioritised.
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Hi Brendan,

Frankly, the blunt statement that someone having to switch his mortgage is more impacted by this decision than someone losing his job, is absurd.

For example, if I have a tracker mortgage, ultimately it will be switched somewhere else on the same terms and conditions - i.e. very minimal impact. If I lose my job, there could be all sorts of negative repercussions for my family and I.

Honestly, apart from the deficit in logic, I think that you are being insensitive to those who may be justifiably anxious and are trying to come to terms about what the future holds.
 
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Of course the branches aren't going to be kept open just to keep staff in jobs but a bit of sympathy and understanding of their plight wouldn't go astray!

It's not as cut and dried as saying they will better jobs/generous redundancy/generous pension. I don't know what the deal negotiated for staff this time will be but many could be a good few years off pension and 'generous' is subjective. I suppose it varies depending on lifestyle, I have a defined benefit pension, the Rolls Royce of pensions we were always told by our employer and it only kicked in last year but all I'll say is it's lucky I'm cheap to run!

Jobs won't be kept for the sake of it, banks don't do that! When First Active and Ulster Bank merged there were no compulsory redundancies other than branches that were closed beforehand and where the staff could not be redeployed elsewhere. What happened was a redundancy package was offered to all staff with FA staff being prioritised but some UB staff got it too so while I don't know the actual numbers I doubt overall staff numbers increased much if at all, many UB staff were refused it so definitely they didn't keep staff they didn't want.
 
SGWidow said:
Hi Brendan,

Frankly, the blunt statement that someone having to switch his mortgage is more impacted by this decision than someone losing his job, is absurd.

For example, if I have a tracker mortgage, ultimately it will be switched somewhere else on the same terms and conditions - i.e. very minimal impact. If I lose my job, there could be all sorts of negative repercussions for my family and I.

Honestly, apart from the deficit in logic, I think that you are being insensitive to those who may be justifiably anxious and are trying to come to terms about what the future holds.
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1. I couldn't have put it better myself. And I commend SGWidow for the post.
2. "you are being insensitive to those who may be justifiable anxious and are trying to come to terms about what the future holds."

People are entitled to their opinions, but if I had made myself look "not good" in a recent interview with Joe Duffy I'd be trying to quench the flames rather than add petrol.

2nd Rule of Media Training:- Where sympathy is needed save the aggression for another day.
 
Folks

The guy from the trade union was on to say that the consumers are well protected and that the priority must be the workers.

This is just wrong.

The sad reality is that the company is closing down. Banking is changing. Banking is going online. There are going to be fewer people needed.

The workers are going to be very well looked after in terms of redundancy payments.

There are plenty of jobs and yes, some of them will have to retrain.

But mortgage holders are losing a valuable competitor in the Irish market, and this should be the government's priority.

Brendan
 
Brendan Burgess said:
Folks

The guy from the trade union was on to say that the consumers are well protected and that the priority must be the workers.

This is just wrong.

The sad reality is that the company is closing down. Banking is changing. Banking is going online. There are going to be fewer people needed.

The workers are going to be very well looked after in terms of redundancy payments.

There are plenty of jobs and yes, some of them will have to retrain.

But mortgage holders are losing a valuable competitor in the Irish market, and this should be the government's priority.

Brendan
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Nobody is arguing with you Brendan. These are trying times for people who hitherto had well paid employment and they are trying to come to terms through no fault of their own with losing their main means of income.

Remember I said before - It's all about presentation. Curt posts of "terribly inefficient" and "just wrong" are up there with you blaming radio presenters for low take-up of Senior Loans.

Some empathy at this stage with the UB workers wouldn't go astray.
 
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