What does one have to do to get convicted of Murder?


My understanding of the difference between murder and manslaughter is that for murder, there has to be proof of intent. In other words, if the prosecution could prove that when this girl left her house with the knife that it was her intention to kill her brother then it's murder. The prosecution could not prove that. Indeed, the judge said that she carried the knife for her own protection which indicates that she was scared of her brother (who had already assaulted one women at that party that night). Hence in this case, the conviction for manslaughter. In fairness to this girl, knowing that you had stabbed your own brother to death, regardless of what he was like, is a life sentence that she will have to carry and deal with until the day she dies herself.
 
What happens if she stabs someone else? She didn't plead guilty to manslaughter either in advance of the trial - that's another link between the three cases that I find odd. I think you're misquoting the judge there, here is what he said which makes it even odder that he imposed a non-custodial sentence
The judge said his difficulty was that the accused had equipped herself with a knife, saying that it was to protect herself from her brother, and brought it to the scene. "It's my experience in this court that those who equip themselves with knives, allegedly for their own protection, tend to use them -- often with fatal results."
From here
http://www.independent.ie/national-...other-walks-free-after-dads-plea-2068503.html
 
Its the mitigating circumstances. To be fair to the Judge, the DPP was happy with a non-custodial sentance in this case. You don't know if she was offered the chance to plead guilty to manslaughter before the trial. She probably wasn't offered it by the DPP.
I can understand why some cases cause confusion and anger. I don't understand the Lillis case for example but I do think manslaughter allows for more convictions than if we only had a murder charge where intent has to be proven. Remember there is the option of life for manslaughter as well.
 
e judge said his difficulty was that the accused had equipped herself with a knife, saying that it was to protect herself from her brother, and brought it to the scene. "It's my experience in this court that those who equip themselves with knives, allegedly for their own protection, tend to use them -- often with fatal results."


This is the difficulty most people have with it, I think. Why not bring a pepper spray as detterent? When I put a lipstick / a set of keys / wallet / tissues / anything else in my handbag, I have every intention of using it so what makes a steak knife any different?


It's all open to interpretation. If a person said to a friend or an acquaintance that they want to kill XYZ, wouldn't that be taken as hear-say in court? Or, if I was complaining to a friend about my husband forgetting to take the bins out AGAIN and said that one of these days I'm gonna kill him for that (out of sheer frustration without meaning it) and then a month later he accidentally fell down the stairs and died from his injuries, would I be accused of murder without having any involvement in his accident?

On the other hand, in case of poor Rachel O'Reilly, the fact that Joe came back home was somewhat taken as intent to kill her BUT he also could have argued that he had forgotten something / spilled coffee all over his work suit, came back home, found her in bed with another man and killed her out of rage. That would have qualified him for manslaughter as far as I understand.

Nobody deserves to end up like Rachel or Celine (mentioning them as they were both high profile cases and relatively fresh in people's memories), my heart really went to their families. When it comes to their husbands I couldn't see much difference - they both lied to the gardai and tried to cover up their crimes. Neither admitted what really happened yet the outcomes couldn't have been more different.
 
DB74 said:
What about this case then

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/...-after-beating-pensioner-to-death-446795.html

He has pleaded not guilty to murder but guilty to manslaughter because he "only set out to rob her"
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Given media reports, there are key differences and it's the same with trying to compare O'Reilly to Lillis, etc etc. You can't and thankfully the Jury doesn't get to make its judgement based upon the Evening Herald.

It's for the state to prove its case not the media. If it can't, then that's it, the case can't be proven.

Anyone could find themselves in a set of circumstances where they're accused of a crime. And if you're innocent, at that stage come back and say whether or not the system is geared too much towards the accused and whether or not that's a good or bad thing.
 
There's a lot of crowing and gloating in this thread. Willie O'Dea works tirelessly for his constituents in Limerick and let's not forget what he has achieved for the city of Limerick: he announced a 1.7 billion Euro regeneration plan four weeks before the General Election, there is almost no unemployment, hundreds of new homes for disadvantaged families, and crime is a thing of the past. Give credit where credit is due.
 

I suppose in fairness he hasn't murdered anyone!!
 
Latrade said:
And if you're innocent, at that stage come back and say whether or not the system is geared too much towards the accused and whether or not that's a good or bad thing.
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There is a huge difference between somebody who is innocent and somebody who admits to killing somebody but wants to plead guilty to manslaughter purely so they can escape the harsher sentences that a muder conviction will carry.

And the massive increase in gang violence & killings over the last 10 years or so coupled with a increase in antisocial behaviour in almost every town and village across the country would indicate that the justice system isn't working.

And to me, that's a bad thing.

Nobody wants a police state, we just want a justice system that works and punishes crimes appropriately and promptly.
 
Excuse me?

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