wavejumper
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excellent post, completely agree.
as someone who never got paid overtime but works plenty of it, nor time in lieu, who started off working at a pittance (training contract), where you do what needs to be done and no-one whips out their employment contract to whine that its not in their job description, all this stuff is staggering.
Am I being exploited?, no. I'm in a profession and, at this stage, am well paid, but I worked just as hard when I was on buttons. I abhor this trade union mentality - people who need to be seen to doing something to back the workers - they live an a parallel universe inhabited but 'fat cat' greedy employers exploiting workers. They should be told to roll the clock forward from 1913. Workers are not "entitled" to jobs, they are lucky if they have them. If employers have it so good why dont "exploited" workers go into business themselves??
With the amount of labour law on the books at the moment there is absolutely no positive role to be played by Trade Unions any longer, labour law protects workers, Trade Unions ruin the economy's competitiveness.
If I was one of those German officials I would jump at the opportunity to get out of this country. Don't know anything about this Company but assume they pay well. Will they be marching down O'Connell Street this week-end?
Rotten fruit at the readyAim for the first person to mention 'Congress'
What makes them Moron's?
For those of you logging on here during your working day, whinging about not getting paid for overtime you need to put in to possibly catch up with the work you haven't completed because you have been on-line its actually comical.
quote]
talk about missing the point, the point is that we are not whinging, we dont whinge, we dont pay somebody to whinge on our behalf. But if you're happy to allow yourself be talked out of a job then fair enough
The Employer (many believe) are using the current economic climate as a weapon to bring in working patterns which have been rejected before.
Wow, so many chips on shoulders here in this thread, I feel a craving for a smoked cod coming on.
The reality of course is that the $40m investment is being waved around in the background as a carrot, but is not on the negotiating table. It is a possibility, but it is not on the table in the current negotiations.
So take that away, and see how the big picture suddenly changes.
Wow, so many chips on shoulders here in this thread, I feel a craving for a smoked cod coming on.
The reality of course is that the $40m investment is being waved around in the background as a carrot, but is not on the negotiating table. It is a possibility, but it is not on the table in the current negotiations.
So take that away, and see how the big picture suddenly changes.
She said: “We warned management during 12 hours of talks at the Labour Relations Commission on Monday that further engagement was necessary if we were to reach an agreement that production workers at the plant would buy into.
“Management insisted on putting the proposals in their present form to the workforce and the result was rejection. The obvious thing now is to re-engage.”
There are two sides to every story. For every 'union pushing employers to the brink', there are the 'employers pushing employees to the brink'. For every employer struggling to deal with the high-cost location, there are many employees struggling to deal with the high-cost of location, and put/keep a roof over their families head.The stark reality is that Ireland is a high cost location, for virtually everything - living,working,marrying,manufacturing, and dying.
There are endless examples of unions pushing employers to the brink, again and again, and when a company eventually reaches the end of its tether - the unions queue up to call for rescue plans, political intervention, or the Labour Court, to save the day.
Indeed, there was a vote. But it wasn't a vote on accepting the $40m investment. The $40m investment wasn't on the table for this vote. It was the PR spin waving around in the background.How exactly? Whatever the conditions/circumstances there was still a vote was there not?
For those of you logging on here during your working day, whinging about not getting paid for overtime you need to put in to possibly catch up with the work you haven't completed because you have been on-line its actually comical.
The Employer (many believe) are using the current economic climate as a weapon to bring in working patterns which have been rejected before.
Two posters claim to know the same carricature of a Unionised Worker in there and have certain knowledge of the situation, if they actually did they would have real fact about the situation rather than the BS they posted about Redundancy, that is not the aim of the rejection of the proposal.
So what are the two sides here? You admit that you know bugger all about this but you still see fit to treat us to 1920’s style class warfare gibberish.There are two sides to every story.
What evidence do you have that “For every 'union pushing employers to the brink', there are the 'employers pushing employees to the brink'”?... or is that just a flight of fancy based on nothing more than upper-middleclass socialist angst and a resentment of those that actually employ “the poor” and give them more than empty rhetoric?For every 'union pushing employers to the brink', there are the 'employers pushing employees to the brink'. For every employer struggling to deal with the high-cost location, there are many employees struggling to deal with the high-cost of location, and put/keep a roof over their families head.
There was no PR spin; the €40 million has been on the cards for many months. In case you hadn’t noticed there is a recession at the moment and air travel suffers during a recession. Jet engine overhaul is scheduled based on the hours each engine has been in use. Therefore when fewer planes fly fewer engines need to be overhauled. (5th year economics bit) When supply is greater than demand there is a downward pressure on price. If you don’t believe me have a walk around Dundrum shopping centre and look at all the sales.Indeed, there was a vote. But it wasn't a vote on accepting the $40m investment. The $40m investment wasn't on the table for this vote. It was the PR spin waving around in the background.
You’re half right there.I don't know enough about this issue to make a sensible comment about the vote itself. Most of those who jump on the 'morons' bandwagon appear to know even less then me.
So what are the two sides here? You admit that you know bugger all about this but you still see fit to treat us to 1920’s style class warfare gibberish.
What evidence do you have that “For every 'union pushing employers to the brink', there are the 'employers pushing employees to the brink'”?... or is that just a flight of fancy based on nothing more than upper-middleclass socialist angst and a resentment of those that actually employ “the poor” and give them more than empty rhetoric?
Let’s for a moment suppose that you are correct and “For every employer struggling to deal with the high-cost location, there are many employees struggling to deal with the high-cost of location, and put/keep a roof over their families head” So people should be paid what they need to sustain their lifestyle rather than in accordance with the value of their input/labour? The rest of the free world gave up on such absurd notions a few generations back.
If an employee is not getting a fair wage for their work then they can move to a different job. If what they consider to be a fair wage is not available in the market place then their expectations are unrealistic.
You, like so many socialists, are confusing where the core social responsibility to engineer a just society lies. It is up to the people, through their government, to use the taxation system to redistribute wealth in society. If people are struggling financially why should their employer pay them a wage that they do not deserve and cannot justify which will make the business unviable in the medium term?
There was no PR spin; the €40 million has been on the cards for many months. In case you hadn’t noticed there is a recession at the moment and air travel suffers during a recession. Jet engine overhaul is scheduled based on the hours each engine has been in use. Therefore when fewer planes fly fewer engines need to be overhauled. (5th year economics bit) When supply is greater than demand there is a downward pressure on price. If you don’t believe me have a walk around Dundrum shopping centre and look at all the sales.
Anyway, back to the morons in question; they were too expensive in the boom and the sure as shinola are too expensive now. They are morons if they can’t see this, they are morons if they can’t see that their jobs are at stake and they are morons if they think a government and a people that are facing our biggest crisis since the foundation of the state have any apatite to help people who act in a moronic and self-destructive manner.
You’re half right there.
So what are the two sides here? You admit that you know bugger all about this but you still see fit to treat us to 1920’s style class warfare gibberish.
What evidence do you have that “For every 'union pushing employers to the brink', there are the 'employers pushing employees to the brink'”?... or is that just a flight of fancy based on nothing more than upper-middleclass socialist angst and a resentment of those that actually employ “the poor” and give them more than empty rhetoric?
Let’s for a moment suppose that you are correct and “For every employer struggling to deal with the high-cost location, there are many employees struggling to deal with the high-cost of location, and put/keep a roof over their families head” So people should be paid what they need to sustain their lifestyle rather than in accordance with the value of their input/labour? The rest of the free world gave up on such absurd notions a few generations back.
If an employee is not getting a fair wage for their work then they can move to a different job. If what they consider to be a fair wage is not available in the market place then their expectations are unrealistic.
You, like so many socialists, are confusing where the core social responsibility to engineer a just society lies. It is up to the people, through their government, to use the taxation system to redistribute wealth in society. If people are struggling financially why should their employer pay them a wage that they do not deserve and cannot justify which will make the business unviable in the medium term?
There was no PR spin; the €40 million has been on the cards for many months. In case you hadn’t noticed there is a recession at the moment and air travel suffers during a recession. Jet engine overhaul is scheduled based on the hours each engine has been in use. Therefore when fewer planes fly fewer engines need to be overhauled. (5th year economics bit) When supply is greater than demand there is a downward pressure on price. If you don’t believe me have a walk around Dundrum shopping centre and look at all the sales.
Anyway, back to the morons in question; they were too expensive in the boom and the sure as shinola are too expensive now. They are morons if they can’t see this, they are morons if they can’t see that their jobs are at stake and they are morons if they think a government and a people that are facing our biggest crisis since the foundation of the state have any apatite to help people who act in a moronic and self-destructive manner.
You’re half right there.
Excellent post dondub,would you and purple start a new policital party.please!!agree with you 100 %Purple, I couldn't agree more.
By the way, can anyone remember reading about a union proactively engaging with management to ensure the future survival a company with a view to preserving jobs - I certainly haven't. They seem to see their sole purpose is to resist, delay and obfuscate -to seek more, for doing less.
Unions ,dare I say it, could be proactive -seeking to understand the commercial realities within which particular companies operate. By taking this approach, we could see 'real' partnership emerge, as against the 'phoney' version we have now.
This 'real' approach would surely create conditions for long term sustainable growth and employment.
Unfortunately, the chances of unions changing their approach is probably less than zero - and if so, they deserve to be consigned to the dustbin of history!!
Excellent idea - a hard-right party in Ireland. Why didn't anyone think of this before. It is bound to attract overwhelming support. Maybe you should call it, oooh let's see, how about the 'Progressive Democrats'?Excellent post dondub,would you and purple start a new policital party.please!!agree with you 100 %
More smoked salmon socialist nonsense. There hasn't been a hard right party in Ireland since the Blue Shirts. There is no rightwing party at the moment. The PD's were in favour of the welfare state (as I am) and so only someone who is blinded by discredited socialist ideology or allows their political bias to overwhelm their rationality could describe them as a hard-right party.Excellent idea - a hard-right party in Ireland. Why didn't anyone think of this before. It is bound to attract overwhelming support. Maybe you should call it, oooh let's see, how about the 'Progressive Democrats'?
By the way, can anyone remember reading about a union proactively engaging with management to ensure the future survival a company with a view to preserving jobs - I certainly haven't.
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