We should have a list sytem

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Purple

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Matt Cooper put it well. He said that we didn't have a General Election, we had 40 odd local elections.
He said that other countries require candidates to run as a member of a party and that party must run candidates in a minimum number of constituencies.
We really are getting what we deserve.
 
That is a good point about quitting or changing parties...

I'd like to see a hybrid system... you have a local constituency vote to elect 1 representative for the constituency, you have 1 vote that goes towards a national party list system.
 
I felt very sorry for Ciarán Lynch who was excellent as the Chair of the Oireachtas Finance Committee and did a good job on the Banking Inquiry. He didn't get much chance to work on local issues.

Maybe if there were a list system, the people who work on national issues would have a better chance of retaining their seats.

Brendan
 
and yet are not all politics local?. Especially given EU rules around national budgets and foreign policy anyway

I heard one of the Healy Raes on the radio a few days ago and he was unapologetic about campaigning on local roads and keeping rural garda stations open and he asked a very simple question, why weren't other TD's doing the same?. Maybe if a few more TD's had stood up to Enda on some of these issues, FG would not be in the mess it is in now and perhaps they would have got more returned. After all, it is not as if closing rural garda stations saved the state a fortune.

Have to say though, bar it being an ego-trip I have to wonder why some of the independents ran. Look at any constituency and you will see people with no organization or structure behind them getting a couple of hundred votes, if that.
 
thedaddyman said:
... and he asked a very simple question, why weren't other TD's doing the same?
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If all elected TDs worked on was the roads and other similar local issues, then who'd run the country? We keep electing people to run the country based on what they have achieved for the local constituency, often at the expense of others. Why do we even have local authorities?
 
Gas to see the Dubs mocking & jeering the Healy Raes when they elected a FG candidate who has campaigned to keep traveller accommodation out of her backyard. Last year 10 travellers, including children, died in a horrific fire in wretched conditions in Carrickmines.
 
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Leo said:
If all elected TDs worked on was the roads and other similar local issues, then who'd run the country? We keep electing people to run the country based on what they have achieved for the local constituency, often at the expense of others. Why do we even have local authorities?
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Let the Ministers run the country.

As for why do we have local authorities, I can't help wondering if the removal of many town and local councils over the last 5 years is one of the reasons why many local issue independents seem to be strong this time. Do people feel disenfranchised ?
 
I would strongly support a mixed list system so we can elect national politicians independent of a local constituency.

I think there is also an imperative to empower local councils to take control of more aspects of administration and be given much greater power to levy their own revenue (the dreaded LPT!) and not be as dependant on central government. Local politicians should be answerable for these local issues and not our national politicians.

Another part of the reason "Lord" Lowry and the Healey-Raes do so well is access to our local and government services can be expedited by their type and their acolytes ("need a medical card? I'll sort you out"). So it is logical for some to vote that way. We need to focus on making access to services impartial and not subject to such influence.
 
We most definitely should not have a list system. It would be a Hobson's choice of privileged party insiders - as the ranks of quango boards are now.
 
T McGibney said:
We most definitely should not have a list system. It would be a Hobson's choice of privileged party insiders - as the ranks of quango boards are now.
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No, if the parties did that then the public wouldn't vote for them. We'd still have local politics, just with the edge taken off it.
 
I think the wider question is why is work by TDs on local issues effective... people obviously seem to think it is, so why do we have a dysfunctional system in which TDs are needed to oil the wheels? Certainly when it comes to potholes you would think that is entirely in the remit of the councils and councillors? Why does it take a TD to kick the councils to get something done? Something that probably should be getting done without any politician involvement at all???

Is the closure of a garda station or hospital in a specific area really a local issue though if it's a decision that is taken by the central national government???
That is outside the remit of the councils, and councillors. How else are people expected to express their opposition to such decisions?

Clearly we need a better system where TDs do not get any benefit from involving themselves in purely local issues, and a way that people can vote for a politician to represent their interests, and the country's interests.
 
Purple said:
No, if the parties did that then the public wouldn't vote for them. We'd still have local politics, just with the edge taken off it.
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What real choice would they have, in an age when a small bubble of insiders control each party and dictate what candidates and policies are acceptable?

Look at the fiasco in Roscommon. Fianna Fáil HQ blackballed the locally popular Eugene Murphy ahead of their convention, but he won it anyway. Then they imposed the the GAA commentator and celebrity Shane Curran on the ticket in an attempt to screw Murphy.

Murphy got three times the vote Curran achieved, and most deservedly got himself elected.

A list system would prioritise the likes of Curran and exclude the likes of Murphy. That ain't democracy.
 
List system sounds good but as per T Mc Gibney = I have my doubts.

Uk system of number 1,s winning ,seems wrong , yet UK hasn,t collapsed.

Our PR system with multi seats per constituency ,I think works and allows disparate views.

Without Td,s having a local (parish -pump) agenda on top of national agenda , would we not end up with a senior unrepresentative Quango?
Unless I get compelling reasons I ain,t for change yet.
 
I think the point that Parish Pump politics exists largely due to the incompetence of the machinery of the state is well made.

If the HSE, local authorities and local services generally were doing their job professionally, efficiently and effectively we would not see so much political interference. Mind you we’d also need to raise far less in taxes.
 
Gerry Canning said:
List system sounds good but as per T Mc Gibney = I have my doubts.

Uk system of number 1,s winning ,seems wrong , yet UK hasn,t collapsed.

Our PR system with multi seats per constituency ,I think works and allows disparate views.

Without Td,s having a local (parish -pump) agenda on top of national agenda , would we not end up with a senior unrepresentative Quango?
Unless I get compelling reasons I ain,t for change yet.
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and let's be honest, an Irish election count is great entertainment for a few days. Much more fun then our neighbours across the pond where 90% of the seats are known well in advance
 
Our system does promote consensus, not that you'd think it. Every politician has to be transfer-friendly which means not alienating people of a different mind-set.

Also, to change the system requires constitutional change ? That first or a repeal of the 8th? (And remember the current lot were elected under the current system)
 
fair point Tommy. I can see no action on the 8th in the current term by any Government formation.
 
44brendan said:
fair point Tommy. I can see no action on the 8th in the current term by any Government formation.
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Not while those godless liberals in the Labour Party are out of office anyway! ;)

No action during the current term... we may have to wait weeks so...
 
Brendan Burgess said:
I felt very sorry for Ciarán Lynch who was excellent as the Chair of the Oireachtas Finance Committee and did a good job on the Banking Inquiry. He didn't get much chance to work on local issues.

Maybe if there were a list system, the people who work on national issues would have a better chance of retaining their seats.

Brendan
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+ 1 He was an excellent Chairman
 
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