"We must dismantle our culture of dependency"


1. I did not say that they did, I said they were part of the problem.
2. Because your are wrong.
3. Are you saying that when there was 4% unemployment that 3% - 3.5% of them had a culture of welfare dependency?
Are you basing it on job availability - how many jobs are available now? Can you give a breakdown of how you came to this figure?
4. To what?
 
I think wages should be calculated on the value of labour.

Where are you going with this? You've made some whoppers already what with communist slogans, engineers working in coffee shops and so forth. Mind how you go now.

You are the one who agrees with communist slogans, is hypothesizing about engineers working in coffee shops and so forth.


But thanks for clarifying your position. As you think that wages should be calculated on the value of labour how is a welfare payment to an employee whose wages do not provide sufficient income to support his family a subsidy by the state to the employer?

I have no problem with such a payment. I support the idea of a social safety net. I just fail to understand how the state topping up the income of someone who cannot fully support themselves is a subsidy to their employer.
 

Im saying 0.5 to 1% (max) welfare receipients are welfare dependent.
We can discuss my figures when you eventually produce your own based on the questions asked.
 
Can you provide your source for that figure please?

We can discuss my figures when you have produced your own. We are going around in the circles so time to stump up the details. 23% of jobless households was a bogus figure intended to imply that most welfare recipients are lazy and choose a lifestyle of welfare.
My argument is that the real figure is closer to 0.5% to 1% of welfare recipients choose a dependency lifestyle.
 
My argument is that the real figure is closer to 0.5% to 1% of welfare recipients choose a dependency lifestyle.


I would really like to see this assertion backed up.

If we look across the water, and I certainly do not agree with the title before you say anything (emphasis mine)
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/268681/4m-scrounging-families-in-Britain

The statistics also revealed the number of households where no one has ever worked has increased by 18,000 over the past year to 370,000.

A total of 3.88million homes with at least one working-age adult do not include anyone with a job. Despite a slight drop of 38,000 over the past year, the shocking figure represents one in five of households with at least one member of working-age.

Critics seized on the statistics as fresh evidence of the culture of benefits dependency that was allowed to spiral out of control under the previous Labour government.

The figures confirmed that the number of households where no one has ever worked doubled under Labour.

So, from the above figures, of the 3.88 million homes where there is at least one working-age adult but nobody is working, 9.5% of those families (370,000) are those where nobody has ever worked. They can't all be carers surely?

Can you back up your figures please?
 
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With respect, its been difficult enough to come to this point without factoring in all the variable that apply to the British welfare system too.

I'm just showing what the figures look like for our nearest neighbour with whom we have a lot in common with. Over there it seems 9.5% of those who are unemployed have never worked. Take away those who are physically and mentally impaired and the carers, you are probably looking at a figure of about 5% which is 5 to 10 times bigger than your figure. So, again, can you please back up your figure?
 

Im not interested in what happens in Britain. I mean, why produce figures for Britain now? Why dont you produce Irish figures?
 
http://www.independent.ie/irish-new...e-has-never-worked-a-single-day-29278033.html

1 in 7 is about 14%.
 
Im not interested in what happens in Britain. I mean, why produce figures for Britain now? Why dont you produce Irish figures?
Orka beat me to it. Would you be so kind as to provide back up to your figures now or is this going to be another "What do we do about Johnny" rigmarole?
 

Just because they have never worked doesn't mean that they are not actively seeking work, actively engaged in training or upskilling, working in the volunteer sector, providing home care help or managing a disabled child or recovering from illness or injury.
If you have followed this topic you will realise that the figures required are for those actively avoiding work to maintain their benefits.
 
You're just playing games now. How can you explain that many people getting to age 35 having never worked? Sure, there might be some doing home care but not many. What are the others upskilling from? If you go 1/2 years without a job to your liking, you accept that your ambitions are too high and go for a lower level job.

No way we have that many people actively seeking work, upskilling like crazy, volunteering from dawn to dusk but somehow just unlucky in not finding the right role. That is delusional.
 
Farmers depend on Eu payments. The government and civil service depend upon tax payers to pay their wages.
Unemployed people spend nearly 100% of their income from the dole. That's at least 23% (VAT) of the dole back into the state coffers straight away.
I think nobody in this society should be judging people on the dole.
 

Some people have had more unfortunate upbringings concerning criminal convictions or recovering from drug or alcohol abuse. Again, it does not mean they are deliberately avoiding work for welfare benefits no more than employers tend not to offer such individuals work in the first instance.
Nevertheless, here is media article debunking data from department of social protection. By no means definitive but if you are using media articles, then so will I.

http://notesonthefront.typepad.com/...the-government-believes-it-can-save-600m.html
 
Unemployed people spend nearly 100% of their income from the dole. That's at least 23% (VAT) of the dole back into the state coffers straight away.
Except that most of life's actual necessities (food, fuel, housing) are at a low/no VAT rate.
 
Michael Taft? That's priceless that is!!!!