Why do you think there is a link between a growing economy and a growth in productivity? Someone on €40,000 a year with a stay at home wife or husband who has three kids pays no net income taxes. Do you think that's a low income? Should they be on welfare?They qualify for welfare because their incomes are so low. Wage increases would resolve that, but that is a complete no-no on this site, without productivity increases. But wait a minute, the economy is growing, so wage increases should be on the way?
Why do you think there is a link between a growing economy and a growth in productivity?
Someone on €40,000 a year with a stay at home wife or husband who has three kids pays no net income taxes. Do you think that's a low income? Should they be on welfare?
That's alright thenOh, I dunno...just a hunch I had.
No, but it's not a low income either.1. On an individual basis, no it is not a low income. For a family, assuming, rent and or mortgage to be paid and other associated costs with family life, it is not a high income. Do you think it is a high income?
Go to any income tax calculator and do the figures and then subtract the children's allowance from the tax paid.2. How do you deduce that they pays no taxes?
Go to any income tax calculator and do the figures and then subtract the children's allowance from the tax paid.
I think an increase in income tax would be more appropriate. What this shows is just how under taxed middle income earners are in Ireland.I've used Deloitte. And from the information presented, I'm calculating a net payment of tax of minus €832 a year.
So you have identified a situation where a case could be made to reduce the child benefit. Correct?
Why?Perhaps, the reduction would only apply where, as in this case, the family do not have the burden of childcare costs.
It's not about making me happy. It is about having a fair taxation system which does not punish hard work and achievement and having an efficient State sector where waste is minimised. Wage levels for individuals in the State sector should not be the issue, rather the overall wage bill. If two people can do what 4 people used to do then split the saving and pay them 50% more each. We talk about what the 100,000 or so people in the HSE get paid. We should be talking about whether we need 100,000 or so people in the HSE.So if the CB was reduced by say, half, then in this instance, the familly would be a net contributor, and that would make you, and lots others happier, yes?
I think an increase in income tax would be more appropriate. What this shows is just how under taxed middle income earners are in Ireland.
We talk about what the 100,000 or so people in the HSE get paid. We should be talking about whether we need 100,000 or so people in the HSE.
We are paying enough at the moment to expect excellent services but due to waste there is a lack of resources in some areas and due to ineptitude and a culture of mediocrity we get bad value for money in many other areas.They are only under taxed if they are also in receipt of quality services. But you have derided the quality of public services in this country, the phrase "you get what you pay for", comes to mind.
I think everyone should pay some tax. Just go back to the rates we had in the mid 90's when the real economy was booming and the growth was driven by SME and MNC businesses providing internationally traded goods and services.An increase in tax is fine, provided it is used for enhanced public services.
What do you propose, increasing the rate up from 20%? Or cutting tax credits? Either way the impact will be felt on all earners, including those on higher incomes who you think already pay too much tax.
Secondly, the increased tax take will have to show some discernible improvement in services, for instance like in Sweden, a cap on childcare costs.
We are paying enough at the moment
I think an increase in income tax would be more appropriate. What this shows is just how under taxed middle income earners are in Ireland.
Yes, that would be fair. It won't happen but it would be fairer and it would encourage work. At the moment the State takes over half of everything you earn over a moderate enough income. That is unfair.And you want to redress that imbalance by shifting more of the burden from high earners to low and medium earners?
I am asking, how would you propose to do that?
Bearing in mind, you state we are paying enough taxes already. So any shift in the burden to low and middle income earners will be met with a corresponding decrease in tax on high earners.
I know people who could expand their businesses but don't bother as the return just isn't worth the hassle (extra work, extra hours, less time with family etc) when over half of everything extra they earn will be taken from them. Why would they bother?
Yes, that would be fair. It won't happen but it would be fairer and it would encourage work. At the moment the State takes over half of everything you earn over a moderate enough income. That is unfair.
I don't understand why taking low income earners out of the tax net is a virtue
I really don't understand why middle income earners consider themselves squeezes, especially by the governmIent. They contribute nothing in income tax and in many cases are net recipients, receiving money which was taken from the same high earners they accuse of not paying their fair share in tax!
Why work 50 or 60 hours a week to earn €120,000 and end up with a take home of €75,000 with all the sacrifices of family time and all the stress?
Do you think the current taxes on earnings are fair?
Do you think high earners are over or under taxed?
Ditto for low and middle income earners.
Fairness always has to be a guiding principle when it comes to taxation. Needs and political expedience have caused fairness to be forgotten about.
A lot of the time weekend work is specifically asked for. As I work in IT it tends to be a quiet time for a lot of organisations. Often the work is not done at all or rolled into a project of some sort.Job for someone else firefly if you are turning down work because of high tax on high earners.So high tax on high earners creates more jobs unless you work harder when you are at work because of high tax.
That's funny alright. I have far better things to do with my time I can assure you. I'm just naturally drawn to idiotic ideologies. You should look for posts by Complainer and RainyDay on this site and SerialComplaint and RainyDay over on boards.ie. Different people I believe but worrying all the same!Less time to keep an eye on TheBigShort.
I'm just naturally drawn to idiotic ideologies.
That shows a fundamental lack of understand about how business works in reality. If Firefly doesn't do the work then someone in a different country may do it or his customer may just not get the work done.Job for someone else firefly if you are turning down work because of high tax on high earners.So high tax on high earners creates more jobs unless you work harder when you are at work because of high tax.Less time to keep an eye on TheBigShort.
Why do you think increasing taxes will result in better public services? Since the vast majority of our spend on public services goes on wages the most likely outcome will just be higher wages for the same level of services. That's what happened during the boom; a more than 50% increase in average Public Sector wages, along with a massive increase in the number of people employed in the Public Sector, but no substantive increase in the level or quality of services provided. Why do you think there would be a different outcome this time?Mine is to increase taxes in order to provide better public services.
LolI'm just naturally drawn to idiotic ideologies.
Why do you think increasing taxes will result in better public services? Since the vast majority of our spend on public services goes on wages the most likely outcome will just be higher wages for the same level of services. That's what happened during the boom; a more than 50% increase in average Public Sector wages, along with a massive increase in the number of people employed in the Public Sector, but no substantive increase in the level or quality of services provided.
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