VRT - can you disagree with the OMSP

S

Sambo

Registered User
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47
Hi,

I have been using the VRT staging page from the Revenue website for quotes on various age 3 Series BMW's. I'm getting kind of frustrated with it as the OMSP (Open Market Selling Price) quoted for the vehicles seems to be inaccurate(very high) depending on which year i.e. 98 car vrt is higer by about €1500 than a late 97 etc etc.

Also, does the Revenue use a "Book value" the kind of which is used in the car and insurance trade to repai/replace vehicles?

Has anybody any experience of been able to argue the market value of a vehicle tin order to reduce VRT? I feel I am clutching at straws here but you have to ask!

Cheers

Sambo
 
Yes you can argue the price but you will need to have proof. And no the CBG or a print off from Carzone won't suffice. It is unfortunately probably easier to argue that pigs can fly than to change the Revenues mind about the OMSP
 
hahahahahah............yeah I thought so Ned, its just a giant pain in the face that the Revenue for their own purposes will use "market prices" whereas the motor industry and insurance industry use "book prices".

What is is they say about highway robbery? At least Dick Turpin wore a mask!!!
 
I brought in a Car from UK a year or 2 ago, got the car VRT €5000 and I appealed the amount when I had to get work done to the engine just after I bought it, I argued that the OMSP of my car was incorrect because my car was not in perfect mechanical order (must show receipt to prove work done on the car in Ireland). I won the case and was awarded about 400 euro off. If you don't ask , you wont get!

http://www.revenue.ie/leaflets/vrt6.htm
 
I'm trying to use the online VRT calculator on the ROS website but I'm not having any luck. Anyone had any similar experience? It's just giving me error saying "no matching vehicles" or something like that?
 
SAMBO........i'm in the exact same boat.i bought a sports car 6weeks ago and before i bought it in the uk i visited the site and the quote was X amount which i was happy with.viisited the site 2 weeks later and the VRT price trebled which i can't understand.

what i'm mad about is i didn't save the initial quote!!! i recently spent 1k on the engine but how can they change prices like that?????
 
ButtermilkJa said:
I'm trying to use the online VRT calculator on the ROS website but I'm not having any luck. Anyone had any similar experience? It's just giving me error saying "no matching vehicles" or something like that?
Click to expand...

what vehicle are you looking at?
sometimes if you put 4 door instead of 5 door or saloon instead of hatchback etc. it can't find the car in their "pick a figure and double it" database
 
X-man,

Keep an eye on the spec you submit, i.e. tdi, glx etc etc. The time of year when it was first registered will also affect the quote, my best advice would be to keep submitting the details through the VRT Staging page , keep tweaking the exact details and keep printing them off. If you have had work done you can appeal that as a cost in order to reduce the OMSP that the VRT is calculated on!!

A friend of mine currently wants to import a Lotus 111S Elise and because it is not on the ROS VRT database they have taken his enquiry and we are awaiting to see what figure they come back with! It's costing 11k Sterling and the same car here is €29,995, so it will be interesting to see what they come up with!!

Was anybody listening to "Newstalk" with G.Hook yesterday evening? They had the MD from the Consumer Association Ireland and the MD from SIMI (Motoring Institute) arguing over the benefit Vs no benefit of importing a car from the North or the UK. Cecil Somebody from SIMI was a right jackass, not willing to acknowledge that there was anygood reason to shop abroad insisting that the Irish Car dealer's were offering better deals - Load of crap!

Anyway X-man let me know how you get on, here is a link for ROS VRT enquiries.

Sambo

http://www.revenue.ie/leaflets/vrt6.htm (Cuortesy of Mc-BigE)
 
ButttermilkJa,

Sounds like the vehicle isn't on thier Database, your gonna have to ring them direct. Check out the ROS website for their contact details, good luck with it they take a bloody age and tend to make up the figures as far as anyone can tell.

Sambo
 
Sambo said:
X-man,

Keep an eye on the spec you submit, i.e. tdi, glx etc etc. The time of year when it was first registered will also affect the quote, my best advice would be to keep submitting the details through the VRT Staging page , keep tweaking the exact details and keep printing them off. If you have had work done you can appeal that as a cost in order to reduce the OMSP that the VRT is calculated on!!

A friend of mine currently wants to import a Lotus 111S Elise and because it is not on the ROS VRT database they have taken his enquiry and we are awaiting to see what figure they come back with! It's costing 11k Sterling and the same car here is €29,995, so it will be interesting to see what they come up with!!

Was anybody listening to "Newstalk" with G.Hook yesterday evening? They had the MD from the Consumer Association Ireland and the MD from SIMI (Motoring Institute) arguing over the benefit Vs no benefit of importing a car from the North or the UK. Cecil Somebody from SIMI was a right jackass, not willing to acknowledge that there was anygood reason to shop abroad insisting that the Irish Car dealer's were offering better deals - Load of crap!

Anyway X-man let me know how you get on, here is a link for ROS VRT enquiries.

Sambo

http://www.revenue.ie/leaflets/vrt6.htm (Cuortesy of Mc-BigE)
Click to expand...

sambo i went to the VRT office with the car when i got it but the guy i was dealing with couldn't get the specific model on his computer screen but yet i could do it in my own home and the quote also.......he told me he would have to wait from rosslare as it wasn't showing up.in that time the price has tripled!!!!!! i have spent 1k on it already. and also its the basic model.......i'll keep you up to date as ill be paying them a visit in the morning
 
This post will be deleted if not edited immediately X-man thats a joke!!!! Can't beleive that they are unable to "guestimate" the VRT based on a similar model of the same car. Mind you I can't say that I find it entirely surprising!!

That MD guy on the "Right-Hook" radio show from SIMI insist's that the OMSP decided upon by the Revenue is as a result of reciepts issued to them upon request from car dealers who have sold similar spec/model cars!!! Might be an avenue you can check out?
 
It is very important that you obtain a quote from the online site or a VRO (Vehicle registration Office) on the day that you purchase a vehicle abroad and that you keep a written copy.

We frequently have this happen, as my business imports vehicles from Japan. It is possible to appeal, based on the original quotation, and my experience is that they will look favourably on an appeal where this evidence is produced.

If you are argueing that the OSMP is innacurate, then you should produce documentary evidence to this effect. A letter from a dealer in similar vehicles is good, and copies of adverts for similar vehicles offered for sale in magazines/papers will also strengthen your case. In most cases the Central Vehicle Office in Rosslare will poll a number of dealers to get their estimation of the market value before reaching a decision.

Work carried out on a vehicle does not qualify, as the vehicle must be presented in a roadworthy condition to the VRO for registration.

P.S. You must pay the VRT as assessed on the day, then lodge an appeal. The vehicle should be presented for registration the next working day after importation into the state.

Gavan
Japnuts.com
 
Japnuts said:
It is very important that you obtain a quote from the online site or a VRO (Vehicle registration Office) on the day that you purchase a vehicle abroad and that you keep a written copy.

We frequently have this happen, as my business imports vehicles from Japan. It is possible to appeal, based on the original quotation, and my experience is that they will look favourably on an appeal where this evidence is produced.

If you are argueing that the OSMP is innacurate, then you should produce documentary evidence to this effect. A letter from a dealer in similar vehicles is good, and copies of adverts for similar vehicles offered for sale in magazines/papers will also strengthen your case. In most cases the Central Vehicle Office in Rosslare will poll a number of dealers to get their estimation of the market value before reaching a decision.

Work carried out on a vehicle does not qualify, as the vehicle must be presented in a roadworthy condition to the VRO for registration.

P.S. You must pay the VRT as assessed on the day, then lodge an appeal. The vehicle should be presented for registration the next working day after importation into the state.

Gavan
Japnuts.com
Click to expand...

Gavan, as a car dealer, do you find that the OSMP quoted on the VRT website is accurate? i.e. if I was to enter say a car your selling on your website, would it be the same as the OSMP price quoted?

Also regarding car been in roadworthy condition, if you presented the car to the VRT office in what you thought was PMO and a week later discovered that the engine need replacing and you can prove that it needed replacing before you presented it, wouldn’t that be grounds for an appeal? Because the car is/was worth less than the OSMP at time of VRT?
 
mc-BigE said:
Gavan, as a car dealer, do you find that the OSMP quoted on the VRT website is accurate? i.e. if I was to enter say a car your selling on your website, would it be the same as the OSMP price quoted?

Also regarding car been in roadworthy condition, if you presented the car to the VRT office in what you thought was PMO and a week later discovered that the engine need replacing and you can prove that it needed replacing before you presented it, wouldn’t that be grounds for an appeal? Because the car is/was worth less than the OSMP at time of VRT?
Click to expand...
The OSMP quoted by the revenue commissioners can often bear no relation to the real market value of the vehicle. Their database lists thousands of options and models, and to be fair to them it is an uphill task to keep up to date with the trends in the market. The system is overly complex and could have been implemented better. It is a nightmare for the Revenue Commission staff that administer it and the Dealers and Car buyers who use it.

There are "bargains" out there, cars for which the VRT currently charged is quite a bit below what would be charged if the OSMP were accurately assessed. Equally there are cars out there that are vastly overvalued and certainly worth appealing. I have been in the situation in the past where I have had to sell a vehicle at below my cost because the VRT quote inflated the price over the "real" Irish market value.

As for the roadworth condition, I doubt they would look favourably on a case like that. I'm not sure as I've never been in that situation, but I suspect that they would argue that the vehicle was roadworthy on the day it was registered and that they could not allow for subsequent faults. Otherwise it would be very difficult to draw the line.
 
I did think that the OSMP was a lot less than the what i paid for my car back in Jan06, so much so that i presented a printout of same to the Dealer at the time and he pretty much said that was the Trade-in price VRT were quoting! however its a great haggling tool!:)

Of course the flip side of the coin could be that the OSMP is correct and the second hand car industry are trying to make a heathly profit!:)
 
Seriously though, CBG car price guide is a small book available in all newsagents for around 5 euro and give prices of all cars back to 98
so might be worth having one of those in your back pocket in the VRT office! or when you buying any car in ireland.
 
mc-BigE said:
I did think that the OSMP was a lot less than the what i paid for my car back in Jan06, so much so that i presented a printout of same to the Dealer at the time and he pretty much said that was the Trade-in price VRT were quoting! however its a great haggling tool!:)

Of course the flip side of the coin could be that the OSMP is correct and the second hand car industry are trying to make a heathly profit!:)
Click to expand...

Lol !, well as a dealer, I do try to make a healthy profit on each vehicle we take into stock. After all a healthy profit means a healthy business, and I and all car dealers (at least the sane ones ) are in business to make a living.

But there is more to it than that, at the end of the day, a car is only worth what the market will pay for that vehicle. I tend to specialise in sports cars, 4x4s, commercial vehicles, and MPV's because there is a healthy demand for these vehicles and because I can source good ones at reasonable prices from Japan. We target our prices to be 5% to 10% lower than the price quoted on a city dealers forecourt for a similar vehicle.

Often the biggest driver in price increases is an increase in VRT... I had a client last year for whom we imported a lovely Subaru. When we bought the car in Japan for him, the VRT was € 2840, by the time it had been shipped to Ireland the VRT was € 5840 !!! We appealed, and won back the difference because we were able to prove that a price had been negotiated based on the old VRT quote (a copy of which I kept), but we havent sold another example of that model since as it is now 20% more expensive purely because of the VRT !
 
I agree, every Company has to make a profit to exist and improve there business but also must be competitive, like you! Well done.

If one considers the Government to be a company, they take the biscuit!
Now I know we all need to pay our taxes, to pay for good Health care
And social welfare and government jets! etc. etc.

But VRT and Stamp Duty on houses are two taxes which really are over the top IMO.

Should be banned or at least reduced.

Anyone know if these issues have made it to EU court or equivalent?

Its one thing for one or two people to complain about it, but we need the whole country, Including the Irish motor industry behind banning VRT.

One way of getting the Irish Motor industry to stand up and help Joe soaps like you and me is to buy our cars in UK/Japan and import them ourselves (sorry Japnuts nothing personal).

This way the big Irish motor industry might pay more attention because they would be losing money and might take on the government themselves.

Also when you pay your VRT, appeal it very time.

Don’t vote for the current government in the next election.
(But I don’t think the other parties will do anything about VRT either)

It’s just a thought, any better suggestions?
 
I was giving this some thought the other day. What would be the effect of removing VRT, or reducing it considerably, on the car market in Ireland? Obviously car prices would reduce but if you look at the depreciation in cars already, everyone that currently owns a car would lose 22.5% or more from the value of their car overnight if VRT was to be abolished.

I can't see that going down particularly well. Ok if you own your car outright and you want to buy a new (new meaning new or different) car the net effect would be the same but if you, like most people I would imagine, have a loan or hp on the car then you have much more negative equity than the usual depreciation.

When I said at the start I was giving this some thought, obviously not much thought, but it's an interesting discussion anyway. Or have I fundamentally not understood the effect it would have?
 
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