Voting all way down the ballot paper
- Thread starter Passport1
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Passport1 has raised an interesting topic. The obvious answer is Yes. If you can figure out who will pass the quota in proper sequence and those who will be eliminated in sequence you can maximise your choice. You must remember when you cast your number one vote, your number two does not come into play until your number one selection is elected or eliminated.
If you are voting AGAINST a candidate it would make sense to vote all the way down the ballot paper in order to ensure your vote gets transferred AWAY from the candidate you dont want. You dont have to fill in all the boxes, but you have to have a 1 on the paper and your order of preference must be clear.
As leper said, your preference wont come into play until your candidate is eliminated or elected. In the latter case, on elimination all the ballots get distributed. However, in the former only the surplus gets distributed. The distribution is in proportion to the lower preferences received by the other candidates, from the elected candidate's surplus.
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As leper said, your preference wont come into play until your candidate is eliminated or elected. In the latter case, on elimination all the ballots get distributed. However, in the former only the surplus gets distributed. The distribution is in proportion to the lower preferences received by the other candidates, from the elected candidate's surplus.
Proportional representation
Proportional representation is the system of voting used in all elections in Ireland. From quotas to recounts, this document explains how it all works.
One thing that was noticed this election as against previous elections in Cork South Central is that canvassers impressed the importance of transfer votes and (along the lines of Itchy's comment above). The final (4th) seat will be between SF/Greens/FG. I reckon this battle within a greater battle will be well watched.
Duke of Marmalade
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Slight clarification. If your No 1 gets elected your No 2 won’t count unless it happened at the first count.
No point in marking a last place as that will never matter, but in theory any other of your preferences might matter.
For example suppose a 5 seater with 10 candidates. Your first 4 get eliminated. If you have only listed another 4 and left out both SF and the Spaghetti Monster party you run the risk that would give SF the 5th seat.
No point in marking a last place as that will never matter, but in theory any other of your preferences might matter.
For example suppose a 5 seater with 10 candidates. Your first 4 get eliminated. If you have only listed another 4 and left out both SF and the Spaghetti Monster party you run the risk that would give SF the 5th seat.
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The main message I get from people who vote down the card is PR-STV is a powerful tool. We can see this in practice in our newspapers and television/radio every day. Deliberately refusing to vote is a cop out and like a lady of over 100 years on today's newspaper said if you don't vote you can't complain.
I think most I have ever gone is to #5.
I suppose if you like two candidates, vote #1 for the candidate you think needs the vote the most.
If they are eliminated, your vote will definitely go to the other candidate - assuming the other candidate is ahead of them.
Whereas if you vote #1 for someone who gets in easily, only the votes above the quota get transferred. And yours may not make the cut.
I suppose if you like two candidates, vote #1 for the candidate you think needs the vote the most.
If they are eliminated, your vote will definitely go to the other candidate - assuming the other candidate is ahead of them.
Whereas if you vote #1 for someone who gets in easily, only the votes above the quota get transferred. And yours may not make the cut.
Brendan Burgess
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If your preference is for the four most popular candidates, there is little point in voting beyond no. 4.
But if you want to vote for 5 or 6 no hopers, then your 7th preference will be the same as a first preference.
Take my constituency of Dublin Bay South.
The following are virtually guaranteed to get elected: Eamon Ryan and Jim O'Callaghan
The next most likely are Eoghan Murphy, Kate O'Connell and Chris Andrews
Then Kevin Humphries
It's very unlikely that any of the following candidates will get elected
Sarah Durcan
Mannix Flynn
Peter Dooley
Annette Mooney
Jacqui Gilbourne
Ben Scallan
So if I vote as follows
1 Sarah Durcan
2 Mannix Flynn
3 Peter Dooley
4 Annette Mooney
5 Jacqui Gilbourne
6 Ben Scallan
Then my 7th vote for say Kevin Humpheys will be the same as a no 1 for Kevin Humphreys.
If I vote
1 Sarah Durcan
2 Mannix Flynn
3 Peter Dooley
and stop, then it's a waste of a vote . It will go into the big box of non-transferrables. I might as well stay at home.
If I vote
1 Eamon Ryan
2 Jim O'Callaghan
3 Kevin Humphreys
It's very unlikely that Kevin will benefit much or at all from my vote.
If you are a FG voter, you should vote
1 Eoghan Murphy
2 Kate O'Connell
One of the two FG candidates will definitely get elected.
The other will probably be in the fight for the last seat, so a third preference is not that important.
But it doesn't cost anything to vote 3 or 4 so you probably should do so.
Brendan
But if you want to vote for 5 or 6 no hopers, then your 7th preference will be the same as a first preference.
Take my constituency of Dublin Bay South.
The following are virtually guaranteed to get elected: Eamon Ryan and Jim O'Callaghan
The next most likely are Eoghan Murphy, Kate O'Connell and Chris Andrews
Then Kevin Humphries
It's very unlikely that any of the following candidates will get elected
Sarah Durcan
Mannix Flynn
Peter Dooley
Annette Mooney
Jacqui Gilbourne
Ben Scallan
So if I vote as follows
1 Sarah Durcan
2 Mannix Flynn
3 Peter Dooley
4 Annette Mooney
5 Jacqui Gilbourne
6 Ben Scallan
Then my 7th vote for say Kevin Humpheys will be the same as a no 1 for Kevin Humphreys.
If I vote
1 Sarah Durcan
2 Mannix Flynn
3 Peter Dooley
and stop, then it's a waste of a vote . It will go into the big box of non-transferrables. I might as well stay at home.
If I vote
1 Eamon Ryan
2 Jim O'Callaghan
3 Kevin Humphreys
It's very unlikely that Kevin will benefit much or at all from my vote.
If you are a FG voter, you should vote
1 Eoghan Murphy
2 Kate O'Connell
One of the two FG candidates will definitely get elected.
The other will probably be in the fight for the last seat, so a third preference is not that important.
But it doesn't cost anything to vote 3 or 4 so you probably should do so.
Brendan
Not exactly accurate. If a candidate is elected at the first count, then all of their votes are used to calculate the proportion of surplus that will be given to each candidate.
A No. 2 vote will always have an impact, whether the No. 1 candidate is elected or eliminated.
Other than your No. 1 candidate being elected, your vote will keep moving until your next preferred candidate is elected.
Duke of Marmalade
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No! Used to think that but links on this thread clarified the procedure. If your No 1 gets elected at first count this interpretation is correct. However if she gets elected on a subsequent count then by definition it is a last parcel of transfers that gets her over the line. It is this parcel which is divied up for onward transfer - the No 1s in the pile and indeed earlier transfers are finished. It's quite a clever way to make the system more manageable.
It's as simple as this. Your vote will travel if either it is part of an elimination or you are in the top part of the last parcel that caused a surplus. So if your No 1 eventually gets elected but not on the first count then it won't travel.
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Duke of Marmalade
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Yes I guess it was just how I said it, you probably meant the same thing.
Interesting article in today's IT. A Sean Donnelly says transfers are way over-rated. He cites that only 10% of TDs get elected because of transfers. What he is saying is that if the first count was used and we didn't bother with transfers we would get 90% the same result. The article goes on to argue that SF/IRA being not transfer friendly is therefore not a big deal.
I disagree. 10% is actually quite high, 16 seats in all. What this says is that 16 folk who are in pole position (e.g. top 5) on first count will ultimately get eliminated. If SF/IRA were half of these that would be 8 TDs. That would be significant.
My brain is a bit fried so didn't dig into all that..yet.., but I thought one of the advantages of electronic voting was that surplus votes got distributed based on the full number of votes for that person, whereas currently they take a random number of votes equal to the surplus (probably straight from the top of the pile) and distribute them, so that would make it a matter of pot luck whether your vote trickles down along as people get elected and have some few surplus (you vote will always count on elimination of course as ever vote for that person gets a chance to travel). I fill up about 6 boxes at least, down along from those who are ok to the guy/gal I can't stand but at least they're not the other ^&*$%^
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