Vartec and EurExcel - 'business opportunities'

Vartec!

IMHO I think vartec are a complete rip-off.
If you look at their web page(www.vartec.ie) you will see that they charge only 3c/minute for local/national calls, but their is a minimum charge of 15c.
I think most people would have a large amount of calls less than 2-3 mins.
Also to ring a mobile costs between 12 -22 c/minute and again there is a minimum cost of 3 mins, it if you ring a mobile during the day and leave a message it will cost you 66c!
I have seen their leaflets with my Eircom bill. I was shocked at the costs.
If vartec and the EurExcel are so great why do they need to use MLM to convince people. If you show people that you have great rates, they will be quick to tell their family and friends and no commission needs to be paid for them to do this
S

EurExcel

Hi Savy1!

I'm a EurExcel Rep. Just wan't to claify your posting above.

You are correct wrt Vartec's rates, etc. However, Vartec don't use MLM to sell their services, instead they use direct mailshots. Their primary product offering is a prefix dialing service. Most customers would only use their network for selective calls. Their international rates are very competitve - UK 6c, USA 6c, Europe 8c, Aust 8c. Also these rates are 24/7, so there is no peak, off-peak or weekend complexities. Their peak national & local rates are only 3c.

It is their sister company "EurExcel" that use MLM to market their CPS product. EurExcel don't have any minimum call charge, nor do they have a minimum cost of 3 mins for mobile calls. You have the option of selecting what calls they carry for you (all calls, local, national or international). They also now have a service "unlimited" where you can call other EurExcel customers free in the UK or Ireland for a small monthly fee. Their product offering won't suit everybody, but for those it does, serious savings can be made on their phone bill. [broken link removed]

The reason they use MLM to market their product is because it's the most cost efficient way to gather a loyal customer base. They don't waste millions of Euros on costly advertising, sponsorship or direct sales people. Reps are their adverts, and they only get paid when they introduce new business. Thats why they can offer such a lucrative compensation plan. Their customer acquisition cost is much lower than any normal telco and their customer retention is the best in the industry.

MLM is not about convincing people, it's about recommendation without disadvantage. I regularly recommend good deals, offers, films, restaurants, etc to my freinds and family. With EurExcel it's the exact same, only I get paid for doing it.

MLM has got a lot of bad press. I was no different to most of the skeptics out there, until I came across this opportunity. I see it as a real win:win. The customer saves on their calls, the reps earns a commission and the company makes a profit. The only looser is Eircom.

My friends are reps

My mates (married couple) are reps for eurexcel and signed most of my other mates up. Some even paying the 350 to become 'agents'.
Now nobody is talking to them. They lied to them about a minimum charge. They also lied about the €5 a month stantard charge.
Nobody is saving money. In fact all their bills are almost double since switching.
They have effectively conned their mates and this leaves a sour taste in everyones mouth.

One more thing. The agent that signed my friends up originally told them not to say anything about these charges so that they could look more like a bargain.
Now they are deeply distressed and have told me that now they realize that they have effectivley conned their friends even though they thought they were doing the right thing at the time.
Sad really

EurExcel

Hi Madhead,

If your friends lied about the products they were recommending then I agree - It's sad. Anybody recommending a product should know exactly what their selling. I would only recommend our products when I know somebody's call traffic patterns, and am sure they can save on their bill. There is no such thing as the cheapest provider as all licenced operators have their strengths and weaknesses.

Just to clarify, EurExcel doesn't have a minimum call charge and the €5 service charge only applies to the basic Eurplan product. Our other products don't have a monthly service charge. They do however require a minimum monthly call spend.

I admit we have our weak points, but we also have our strong points. It's the Reps job to ensure they don't make false promises to customers. There are some ethical reps out there, so don't paint us all with the same brush. - Thanks!!

Great article in The Sunday Business Post about Eircom's win back tactics. Worth a read to see the dirty tricks our incumbent gets up to.

[broken link removed]

Re: EurExcel

greetings, sorry if I have not registered yet but I wanted to comment on Excel Corporation (as they are referred to in the United States). I am a second year law student who works for a federal judge in the San Francisco Bay Area. I can tell you that Multi Level Marketing is a very legitimate corporation. However I have looked over an Excel job application contract and after discussing it with a federal judge, a corporate attorney and both my contracts professor and a friend in the attorney general's office (all of them have come to the conclusion that this is in fact a pyramid scheme!) No matter what the excel rep will say above LOL Excel really doesn't make a product. They make their money solely on recruiting other people to pay an exorbitant fee to join up. MLM would be legitimate if there was no "application fee, i.e. franchise fee" those terms are laughable.

I notice that these scam artist Excel reps recruit 18-20 year old kids. I have never seen anyone older than 21 or maybe 22 who are working to scam people.

Re: EurExcel

Jdilawstudent - I find this unusual. If a federal judge finds this illegal then why are the various MLM companies allowed to operate in the US. MLM.com churns out that there are hundreds of these companies in operation in the US.

As I understand it - there was a case in the US ( & you are probably in a better position to research this given Your background) which claimed that MLM was in fact a Pyramid operation. The claiments lost - the judgement was in favour of teh MLM company('s).

Looking forward to Your comments....

ninsaga
(Note: I tried MLM in the past & was not very good at it.)

PS: I also find it interesting that more people try to find what wrong with something rather than what is right.

Re: EurExcel

MLM is a pyramid operation which can be legal. However there are 2 main factors that go into an MLM operation that can declare it illegal.1. Recruitment fee's and 2. Is the MLM operation actually selling something? One very simple thing to ask an MLM operation is whether you have to pay a certain fee to get hired into a company. If you do it is most likely a pyramid scheme.

The next thing you ask is what exactly is this MLM company selling. In Excel's sake they are allegedly selling a phone service but when an Excel rep was attempting to recruit me, he told me that the way it works is that I won't do any work and the people I hire to work for me will be doing all the work, and at most just have your family sign up for it. Now if I was stupid enough to pay into Excel's 400 dollar fee than I would most likely be trying to recruit people by telling them that the people below them will be doing all the work. The emphasis in the interview was not in selling the cellular phone plan, itwas in recruiting other people. And if you recruit so many people and obtain so many points then only then will you be getting paid. So there really is no product being sold, unless you count the people you are scamming.

Like I said MLM's can be legal but in an industrial society they very rarely succeed because you have to mark up your product so much that when you actually sell a product (and the selling of the product is the only way you can make money) everyone above you can get a small commission. This is legal because there are no enrolement fees to enter this kind of legitimate MLM and because you actually are making a product. But with big business usually it is unequitable for MLM's to survive because big business can swoop right in and undercut the price leaving no comparison in price between an MLM operation and another similar product for less money.

To answer your other question, I work with academics and a judge, and I know a very prominent lawyer in the California Attorney General's office. The academics know it's illegal but aren't gonna file a lawsuit because one of their bright students/employees uncovered it. My friend in the attorney general's office is interested and has passed the contractual application on to the public rights division (who actually handle pyramid schemes). Sadly for Excel or Vartec whatever they want to call it, they can be legitimate if they only concentrated on not charging new hires $400 and if they actually sold a product instead of a scam.

Re: EurExcel

OK...

Quote
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MLM is a pyramid operation which can be legal.
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Pyramid operations by their very definition are illegal so I fail to so hoow You can dram parallels here whne You are saying it can be legal.

There are many reputable companies out there selling reputable products or services. Some of these happen to to MLM companies.

Then again there are compaines out there whose objective is to scam people - again some pf these are prospecting their Customers/distributors by using MLM techniques - Women empowering Women & GMT come to mind.

Of the former the likes of Herbalife, Kleeneze, FLP, Nutrimetics, Cynergie & Excel - again ones that come mind do provide good products & services. The 'end' Customers benefit from their purchases & can save money versus mainstream suppliers & service providers. So if the Customer benefits & the Agent/Distributor (or whatever they are called), makes soem money alon the way, then what's wrong with that.

ninsaga

Re: EurExcel

Pyramid operations by their very definition are illegal

Click to expand...

This is not completely accurate - pyramid SELLING schemes are illegal in Ireland but pyramid GIFTING schemes (which involve the gifting of money between participants but not the selling of any product or service - e.g. Women Empowering Women etc.) are not.

question for Eurexel rep

Can you explain the purpose of the €350 charge ?. If I was a new agent every customer I bring is good news for the company. What do I have to get 10 points. If I only get eight the company gains and I get nothing!,

Re: question for Eurexel rep

Hi Stanley,

It is not uncommon for Network Marketing companies to charge an initial start up fee. (it is not very common for you to get the opportunity to earn that start-up fee back within your first few days in the business !!!!)

Our application fee, actually €325, covers many things including your license to trade as a EurExcel Independent Rep,
Independent Representative kit, Support and Business Building material, Product and Service Information, Product and service training by certified trainer, EurExcel for Representatives on-line information support, Personalised on-line business support, Weekly reports - showing payments, downline activity etc.

Imagine if sign up was free..... then I could easily fill my downline with names and earn my promotions !!! Also, how many McDonalds franchises open with zero investment, do you of many other businesses that you can start for free ?

The initial investment also serves are a measure of commitment to the business. Like I said, if it was free lots of people whould sign up and do absolutely nothing !!!

The company doesn't want your €325, so if you're not going to get 10 points (5 customers on Direct Debit) then don't join !!!

Regards,

Rep

Re: question for Eurexel rep

so what is the harm in hiring people to sell the excel plan without the "franchise fee" and just pay them on the commission they bring in in sales rather than new recruits?

And why don't you spell out exactly what the franchise fee covers? You are being way too broad in your definition of why this billion dollar company needs such a huge fee up front from someone who wants to sell your "phone plan" to other people.

Re: question for Eurexel rep

good question!