Useless Employment Contracts

T

thedaras

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Are employment contracts useless ?

Please feel free to correct me,if and where I am incorrect ;

Must employers issue job descriptions to employees, in both public and private sector?

Is it generally stated in contracts and/or job descriptions that 'other tasks' related to the position are part of the job?

If the specific tasks are not specified,is it reasonable to assume that employees don't have to carry out such tasks?

Or does " other tasks related to the position" cover most if not all of what is required to do the job?

If an employee doesn't carry out
'other tasks' related to the position,when it is in the contract,can he/she be disciplined or sacked?

What should an employer do if he/she refuse to carry out these tasks, on the grounds that they are not described/listed in the contract/role description?

Is the way forward to have an exhaustive list of every conceivable task.leading to perhaps hundreds of pages?

Take for example, someone from the passport office on TV yesterday that said he would not deal with customers at the counter ,if it doesnt say in his contract that he has to deal with customers at the counter,and it doesnt state in his contract "other tasks",then why should he deal with them?( feel free to add your own examples of private sectors doing similar).

If it does state "other tasks" in his contract,then why isnt this person being sacked/disciplined?

Why are employers afraid to take action on contracts which are not being carried out by employees?

Should we put up with a reduced service ( Say its a dry cleaners and you go to the counter to collect your item,but the person refuses to serve at the counter ) because the employer is not prepared to enforce the employees contract?
What message would we send to the employer?

Are employment contracts useless ?

I hope in the examples I have given that I have covered both sectors as I dont want this to be about getting at either sector.
 
thedaras said:
Please feel free to correct me,if and where I am incorrect ; Must employers issue job descriptions to employees, in both public and private sector?.
Click to expand...

First of all Im assuming that you do not want this thread to be side tracked into another public sector/ private sector ping pong discussion?

I think it is rare in the civil and public service to have written job descriptions (or indeed written employment contracts) for permanent employees.

In the broader public sector the situation varies from the civil service practice (no job descriptions) all the way through to the private sector practice (individual employment contracts with written job descriptions).
 
ajapale said:
First of all Im assuming that you do not want this thread to be side tracked into another public sector/ private sector ping pong discussion?
Click to expand...

Definitely not..Which is why I have tried to include both sectors in the examples.
I'm asking the questions ,and looking for answers regardless of which sector they apply too.
 
I don't have a job description but it does have the other tasks thing in my contract. I don't think I have ever refused to do any work task.
 
All HSE staff get job specs and contracts with that clause.

That clause is considered best practice as you will never be able to list all tasks. It would be a rarity for someone not to have one in the public/civil service.

Very surprised you say you don't have one sandrat. The passport office one isn't a good one at this time as they are on a WTR as part of an industrial relations dispute.

That said generic job specs with the clause, together with with a separate list of duties which can be updated yearly or 5 yearly is the only way to go.

Disciplinary action can be taken and has being for non performance of tasks. An employee in the HSE can work under protest which is a formal process if they feel they are being asked to do task/s which they don't consider related to their job.

I presume there are similar processes in the wider public/civil service.
 
Like I say I have a contract but it doesn't go into specifics of the job. T

There are too many varying tasks my last week alone would be almost impossible to list all the things I had to do from mopping up a flood, to ringing plumbers and chasing electricians, to arranging events, to media appearances to taking photos making tea and doing arts and crafts all things you wouldn't expect me to be doing but are all related to my job. Even today I had to go back to work to give furniture back to people that had lent it to us for another event and needed them back sooner than expected.

Probably helps that I like variation in my job and it doesn't bother me. But the all relevant duties as assigned thing works and also they you may be relocated around the county as the discretion of management thing covers them for redeployment so I don't know what the unions are at to be honest!
 
In my experience, contracts and job descriptions are written (generally) in quite broad terms, with few specifics e.g. you will:

- provide a flexible service to customers
- participate in problem solving initiatives
- work as part of a team to ensure production targets are met

In most employments (80% of which are non-union), employees will adopt a 'do whatever it takes' approach to get the job done. In those organisations that are unionized (both private and public), many employees ( at the behest of their union) tend to adopt a ' do whatever you can to resist, obstruct and delay' approach.
Whilst the private sector tends to self-correct i.e. obstruction, resistance etc. generally results in a crisis - which usually (but not always) causes people eventually to cop-on and act reasonably.
The public sector has far fewer in-built checks and balances - therefore, unions/employees can refuse to work normally on the pretense that it is a WTR, with virtual impunity.
This is not an attack on the PS, rather a criticism of allowing unions/employees to operate in a virtually 'consequence free' manner - which unfortunately, plays into the baser nature and instincts of humans.
 
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The opposite also applies.
My employer, a Bank , told a number of us to clear a safekeeping area which was quite clearly an extremely hazardous area , dreadfully cold as it was underground and unheated with files and boxes stacked to the ceiling and liable to tumble when disturbed and dust everywhere.
We complained to the Union and a specialised firm was called in.
Without Union representation would we have been able to refuse to undertake this unreasonable task , I think not.
 
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