University Research Funding

[MissRibena]

Hi everyone

Last week I learned that some of the scientific research projects undertaken at TCD are funded by the US Military Department; one in particular is about improving aspects of US fighter jets.

If this is a small proportion of funding, then it's not really a biggie (even if my anti-US-war heckles are raised) but it made me wonder who funds what in the Ireland's universities and is there anyone overseeing how these projects fit with the national agenda? Does anyone know if these kinds of figures are made public?

Thanks
Rebecca

 

[TarfHead]

.. how these projects fit with the national agenda?

.. which is .. ???

 

[daltonr]

.. which is .. ???

To convince the general public that the country is Neutral so as to avoid having a referendum on the issue, while actually not being neutral at all.

-Rd

 

[MissRibena]

Well, we are officially a neutral country. If it forms a significant part of research projects (and I don't know if it does - I'm only wondering), then I for one would not be happy that the country's best potential researchers are engaged in projects for the advancement of the US army. In fact, I wouldn't be happy to think that research was funded by any military organisation.

I would much rather see research be dominated by projects that would benefit all of human kind, rather than help kill each other. I believe that if money is invested in war-based projects, then we will get more war and it all becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.

I knew about the protests in MIT in the 60's that centered around this kind of debate but had never occurred to me that it might apply in Ireland.

Rebecca

 

[MissRibena]

I don't really want to get into a neutrality debate here. But for the record (and to state a bias), I'm not happy with our neutrality either because I'm vehemently opposed to the US action in Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. etc.

The whole issue may be moot because I don't have the figures. I just wondered if anyone knows if this kind of stuff has any kind of "watchdog".

Rebecca

 

[daltonr]

Rebecca,

I don't want a Neutrality debate either, I was just answering Tarfs question about what our National Agenda appears to be. I think you and I have similar views on that matter.

-Rd

 

[TarfHead]

.. just answering Tarfs question about what our National Agenda appears to be.

And I just wanted to flush out what was meant by the phrase, to avoid ambiguity.

When our current Taoiseach speaks of Ireland being neutral, I take it with a pinch of salt, the same pinch taken when he 'rules out' future potential coalition partners.

Meanwhile, back on topic, I regrettably doubt that a University board of management would decline funding for research on ethical grounds. I am sure they could construct a Clinton-esque form of words with which all paradoxes could be accommodated.

 

[daltonr]

the same pinch taken when he 'rules out' future potential coalition partners.

Bertie does taste better with a Pinch of salt. That's true.

Bertie Ahern (Opposition): 1997
We would regard any attempt to push Partnership for Peace or participation in Western European Union tasks by resolution through this House without reference to the people who, under our Constitution, have the right in final appeal to decide on all questions of national policy as a serious breach of faith as fundamentally undemocratic.

Bertie Ahern (Taoiseach): 1999​

The Government is recommending that Ireland should participate in Partnership for Peace because we believe it is in the national interest to do so

-Rd

 

[Sherman]

who funds what in the Ireland's universities and is there anyone overseeing how these projects fit with the national agenda?

Surely Universities should have nothing to do with any putative 'national agenda'? I would have thought the whole point of a university (aside from churning out workers for our friendly US multinationals ) is to be a centre of learning and contemplation far removed from and independent of some 'national agenda' set by a bunch of politicians/media/'commentators'/activists?

 

[MissRibena]

Yes of course we want free thinkers but it is not free thinking if the knowledge acquired becomes the property of a particular organisation due to confidentiality agreements. This is not adding to mankind's body of knowledge. Could our own state (who also contribute funds to universities) even access this kind of information if we wanted to?

Incidentally, the Constitution from where our neutrality is derived, is not set by a bunch of politicians/media/"commentators"/activists and I would have thought that even those in the ivory tower were not above it.

Rebecca

 

[DrMoriarty]

I'm afraid that [broken link removed] is long since dead and buried. The primary function of a University — in our 'knowledge-based economy', bla, bla... — is precisely to churn out suitably trained employees for Corporate Ireland (or the US, or wherever). And to employ/promote those most likely to advance this agenda. On renewable contracts, of course - none of that silly tenure stuff...!

Eddie Holt had an interesting piece in Saturday's Irish Times (subscription required) entitled [broken link removed].

 

[Gordanus]

I regrettably doubt that a University board of management would decline funding for research on ethical grounds.

But all research proposals in a university have to be passed by the Ethics Cttee!

 

[DrMoriarty]

From my own institution's website:

The Research Ethics Committee is charged by the University to consider the ethics of proposed research projects which will involve human subjects and to agree or not, as is the case, as to whether the projected research is ethical.

The Research Ethics Committee must be consulted about any research proposals which involve:
- direct experimentation on individuals;
- surveys or questionnaires administered to individuals;
- use of data derived from individual records where individuals might be identified.

Research on patients (i.e. people who are receiving treatment as a result of an illness) is not within the remit of the Committee and should be referred to the [relevant] Regional Hospital Research Ethics Committee.

There's virtually no such thing as 'unethical' research funding...

 

[Marie]

From my own institution's website:There's virtually no such thing as 'unethical' research funding...

You can't break wind in my institution without it passing through the Research & Ethics Committee . Problem is one of semantics; the "Ethics" institutions and organisations evoke these days are associated more with avoidance of liabilities where there is danger or damage to staff or clients. The "old-fashioned" ideals from the Greek philosophers - including virtu and ethos demonstrated through competence are unfortunately swamped by the pressures of neo-liberal late-capitalist economics spearheaded by multinationals. I heard a snatch of a documentary programme on the radio today - an interview with young Chinese people. Globalisation is rapidly transforming their social and cultural environment into a clone of the (so-called-'developed') West. They were thrilled they did not have to work in the factory or the field, as their parents had been constrained to do; they could train in professions, there was more freedom of travel (if they could afford it!) and more freedom of association (AHEM! ..... CHINA!) but they were deeply aware of the loss of community "People don't look after each other any more or live in harmony or help their neighbours".

The Mathematics Department of the University where I am registered for PhD was shut as part of a cost-cutting exercise a few years back. That mathematics is the essential training in clear rational thought did not cut the mustard with the Board. Universities are big business these days; there is a 'learning industry'. Have a look at that URL posted by DocM. John Cardinal Henry Newman's idea of a university was of a place where people (people were all male in those days of course ) came from all walks of life to debate, experience and be transformed in their understanding...........a situation more likely to occur on the www nowadays. For those fortunate enough to have access, that is! Funding from a national defence department is what every university chancellor dreams of and labours for! Nothing - but nothing - is "neutral"!