Case study Ulster Bank not contactable so I went into arrears

[Louisa2014]

The main issue now with Ulster bank is that I feel these numbers are being created and driven by Ulster bank driving people into arrears in the MARPS process.
Then they just get rid of the loans, my sisters mortgage has been sold to Cerebus my name is also on this mortgage

In the MARPS process you have to wait for a phone call from an agent , this takes up to 12 + weeks and then there can be a lot of serious time delays all caused by Ulster bank. You can call and write look for a status of your arrangement and all you'll get is you're in the queue and we'll call you at x date. Usually that's weeks out, and that's just the first call, then you complete the SFS and send it in, you then have to wait for another call from an MARP agent. Again this can take weeks. if there's another party to the mortgage they have to contact the MARPS team also to engage or decline the SFS. in my sisters case after she entered into the MARPS process it took 12 + weeks for the first MARPS call., they are very clever and tell you to continue to pay x amount per month. You are NOT in an arrangement you are still waiting for an arrangement offer, in the mean time your arrears are clocking up, going on your credit report. I wonder how many of the houses included in the sale are arrears created by ulster bank in the MARPS process.
My sister has been waiting from March 2017 and just got an offer in August from Sept - November for an official arrangement all under the MARPS process.
that's 15 months. She got a letter stating her loan is being sold to Cerebus, all those arrears are from the delay in MARPS process. She actually entered the MARPS process before going into arrears, that's what most people do. It's an utter disgrace and someone needs to hold these banks accountable .
In the mean time your credit is destroyed. You can call write, send letter of complaints, they don't care, they just fob you off and tell you they're working on it.
Meanwhile your loan is earmarked for sale to a vulture fund. Unless you're in this process you have no idea on the failings.

 

[Louisa2014]

agreed AlbacoreA there is a lot of ambiguity and it is the right to question the banks process at every turn.

People can be do righteous in comments and opinions but have never actually been in the MARPS process or have had a mortgage sold because of arrears.

Vulture funds are not banks, they are in for a 3 - 5 year turnaround on the mortgage for the profit. in for the " kill"

We must always question banks and processes that's what creates progression and change.

 

[Blackrock1]

agreed AlbacoreA there is a lot of ambiguity and it is the right to question the banks process at every turn.

People can be do righteous in comments and opinions but have never actually been in the MARPS process or have had a mortgage sold because of arrears.

Vulture funds are not banks, they are in for a 3 - 5 year turnaround on the mortgage for the profit. in for the " kill"

We must always question banks and processes that's what creates progression and change.

if i had a mortgage sold because of arrears and had held onto my house despite of that then i wouldnt complain too much.

 

[newtothis]

if i had a mortgage sold because of arrears and had held onto my house despite of that then i wouldnt complain too much.

....and if you subsequently lost your house (sorry, that should read "home") because you weren't given a realistic opportunity to clear any arrears that arose through no fault of your own, would you still not complain?

 

[Blackrock1]

....and if you subsequently lost your house (sorry, that should read "home") because you weren't given a realistic opportunity to clear any arrears that arose through no fault of your own, would you still not complain?

how would arrears arise through no fault of your own? if they are your arrears they are your problem, also are there any verifiable cases of people being evicted in the scenario outlined above?

 

[newtothis]

I'm a tad old fashioned, If I borrow money I pay it back, if that takes three minimum wage jobs, no holidays and tight balancing of the books then so be it, my home is my castle and I will work my backside off to keep it.

You really have no idea what is involved in dealing with the banks on this issue, do you?

I'm a tad old fashioned too, If I borrow money I pay it back.

My problem was my partner was made redundant at the height of the recession.

My problem was that I was made redundant within six months of that.

My problem was that despite engaging with our lender even before we were unable to keep up the full payments, they consistently failed to engage in a meaningful way.

My problem was a bank that just ignored provisions of the MARP process, with absolutely no sanction.

My problem was a bank that threatened us, then lied and fabricated documents to cover their shortcomings.

My problem was a bank that refused to correct so called “arrears” that they claimed had built up.

My problem was a bank that then sold the loan to a vulture fund.

My problem was a vulture fund that similarly ignored provisions of the MARP process, again with no sanction.

My problem was a vulture fund that demanded immediate repayment of the so-called “arrears” on threat of losing my home, despite me making fully restored repayments by that stage.

My problems were far from unique: from everything I’ve heard they are absolutely typical rather than an outlier case.

I managed to deal with all my problems.

I hope you never have to deal with problems similar to mine; if you did, you would perhaps be less inclined to make assumptions and sit in judgement of others.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

all those arrears are from the delay in MARPS process.

Eh no. Those arrears are because she did not pay her mortgage according to the schedule.

Brendan

 

[Brendan Burgess]

You guys have documented your case and the delays caused by Ulster Bank in responding to you.

Neither UB nor Cerberus have a hope in hell of repossessing your home once you outline those delays to the Registrar.

But it's terribly important that you pay what you can and that you write to the lender repeatedly even if they don't respond.

The good news is that Cerberus will be more efficient than Ulster Bank. They will respond to you and if you have a sustainable mortgage and if you have been paying what you can, they will do a restructure.

Brendan

 

[Louisa2014]

how would arrears arise through no fault of your own? if they are your arrears they are your problem, also are there any verifiable cases of people being evicted in the scenario outlined above?

Yes there are cases it's called being put in arrears by the bank while in the MARPS process, go through the court records and look at the lists. Evictions will happen as the vulture funds are in for the kill 3 - 5 years. they are not interested in your keeping your family home for you, they want to flip it and get their margin. You obviously have never dealt with the MARPS process or a vulture fund.

there are people here looking for information on how to deal with this situation on a vulture fund who buy out of their mortgage, you're comments and judgement and opinions offer no help or support.

 

[Louisa2014]

You guys have documented your case and the delays caused by Ulster Bank in responding to you.

Neither UB nor Cerberus have a hope in hell of repossessing your home once you outline those delays to the Registrar.

But it's terribly important that you pay what you can and that you write to the lender repeatedly even if they don't respond.

The good news is that Cerberus will be more efficient than Ulster Bank. They will respond to you and if you have a sustainable mortgage and if you have been paying what you can, they will do a restructure.

Brendan

UB are telling lies, playing with the truth and use a good PR SPIN to say what the " borrowor " is, most of it is arrears caused by their processes while you are paying the monthly payment that they have advised you to. they then sell your mortgage, throw you to the wolves and wash their hands on it.
May I make a point most are probably loss making trackers, they are delighted to get rid under the guise of arrears.
The biggest issue is the damage it's doing to your credit due to the delays in the MARPS process thus putting you in arrears. you then get sold to a vulture fund, you are in arrears and you want to re finance, you might have a chance if you're working etc but now you can't as your credit is at 0.

May I point out that Most people enter the MARPS process are not in arrears, they communicate with their bank before the payment is due which is the correct thing to do they leave the MARPS process being sold to a vulture fund and in arrears.

I have been told that Cererbus will be more efficient in demanding arrears ( that shouldn't be there in the first place) not capitalising arrears into your mortgage and moving in for the kill, they don't do mortgage to rent, they don't do restructuring like the banks, they don't and rarely capitalise the arrears into your mortgage. eventually and it seems like after 1 year they put pressure on you to surrender of your house to them for the arrears. it's the arrears that the bank have created for you that gets your loan sold and it's that that gets your house eventually repossessed. the courts are backed up.

Also most arrangements via MARPS are 3 months, when Cererbus take over most people will be out of arrangement, they will do the MARPS process, then the demands will happen for the arrears and so on. Yes I can't see any court allowing a repossession on that, but I know they are happening and more to come with this huge sell off.

the law needs to change on the MARPS process , the criteria for sale of mortgage loans on sales to vulture funds, and vulture funds themselves

There's no idea on who the agent will be for Cererbus, everyone is waiting for the letter.

 

[RedOnion]

May I point out that Most people enter the MARPS process are not in arrears,

Where are you getting that information from??

 

[Palerider]

You really have no idea what is involved in dealing with the banks on this issue, do you?

I hope you never have to deal with problems similar to mine; if you did, you would perhaps be less inclined to make assumptions and sit in judgement of others.

Just for balance I've been representing people in severe financial difficulty acting as a mediator since 2009, I have also worked in Banking since the 80's, during the past nine years I have seen horrendous lending decisions, shocking follow up and poor adherence to any governance by the Banks, I have used all of these lapses and many more to the advantage of the borrowers I represented.

I also had lots of direct experience of borrowers who had no interest in getting a resolution, who lied on paperwork and were deviant, I dropped all borrowers who I felt were disingenuous, I had that comfort as I only worked through a referral system following an avalanche of enquiries following a piece in a brief media interview.

There are so many sides to this but I stand by my comment, I have seen borrowers take on extra work they would never have considered, skimp on anything considered a luxury...a weekly family Chinese takeaway in one case so don't think I lack an understanding and I am in no position to sit in judgment of others but I am entitled to my opinion, one built over time and personal experience, no apologies either.

Those that deal face on with their debts accepting they owe the money will fair best not those who criticise the lack of adherence to processes, just my own view of course.

 

[Louisa2014]

Demographics have been shared from my solicitor and other agencies I have been in touch with over the past year that are dealing with this first hand as their job
Most people are responsible and put their hands up prior to not being able to pay thus entering the MARPS process.

 

[newtothis]

The good news is that Cerberus will be more efficient than Ulster Bank. They will respond to you and if you have a sustainable mortgage and if you have been paying what you can, they will do a restructure.

From the sounds of it, just about anyone would be more efficient than Ulster Bank, so no issue there.

Why do you think Cerberus will do a restructure, though? It's just over a year now since I dealt with them, but there is no way they could consider doing one at that time. All I was offered was pay off the arrears immediately, pay off the total (with discount), sell my home or face repossession. I spoke with others who were offered the same "choice". Maybe they've mellowed with time, though.....

 

[newtothis]

Most people are responsible and put their hands up prior to not being able to pay thus entering the MARPS process.

That was certainly the case for me: we met with Danske about four months before we knew we wouldn't be able to contuinue paying the full amount. We exhausted all our savings, sold as much was we could and did whatever it took to keep payments going, despite having no income. From all I've heard, this was typical.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

Yes there are cases it's called being put in arrears by the bank while in the MARPS process,

Hi Louisa

I am sorry but you have no idea what you are talking about here.

A bank can't put you in arrears if you pay your mortgage according to the mortgage agreement.

They can keep you out of arrears by restructuring your mortgage, but they are under no obligation to do so.

Brendan

 

[Brendan Burgess]

Demographics have been shared from my solicitor and other agencies I have been in touch with over the past year that are dealing with this first hand as their job

Now, I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Brendan

 

[Brendan Burgess]

Why do you think Cerberus will do a restructure, though? It's just over a year now since I dealt with them, but there is no way they could consider doing one at that time.

Obviously I have no idea about your circumstances. Maybe your mortgage is totally unsustainable. Maybe you can pay a lot more but are refusing to do so.

It's not too complicated. If you are in genuine difficulties and doing your best and your mortgage is sustainable and they refuse a restructuring, then...
Appeal the case using their internal appeals process
If they have not adhered to MARP go to the FSO
At the same time write to them setting out your own proposal for restructuring your mortgage
Make your payments in accordance with that.

There isn't very much that they can do. They can annoy you and take you to court but they won't get an order for possession.

Alternatively you can just rail against the vulture funds and pay nothing and see how you get on with that.

Brendan

 

[Louisa2014]

Brendan
It's my sisters family home and my name is on the mortgage; So I am on the hook for the balance over 250 K. I have my own mortgage family home and others in addition to this. I had a perfect credit rating, am self employed. Having me pay her full mortgage on a house I'm not renting out or living in is not a viable option.
She has a 50/50 prospect of being able to pay the full amount pending her divorce but in the mean time needs to be on arrangement based on her current income ( 1000 a month) I'm pushing for UB to stop selling the mortgage based on the fact she should be able to pay next year in full or she has offered to sell after her divorce.

her arrears have destroyed my credit so no hope of a refinance for a shot sell offer. I don't think she's get a short sell offer as she's on tracker rate of .90
In the mean time, i'm trying to get UB to reverse the selling of it , get the incorrect arrears off the account while within the marps process
Having arrears on an account in transfer seems to be a nightmare for everyone, I'm just trying to find my way through this process like everyone else in the situation since this sale was announced.

 

[Louisa2014]

Hi Louisa

I am sorry but you have no idea what you are talking about here.

A bank can't put you in arrears if you pay your mortgage according to the mortgage agreement.

They can keep you out of arrears by restructuring your mortgage, but they are under no obligation to do so.

Brendan

I was referring to in the MARPS process UB are putting people in arrears due to their timelines on entering into arrangements with people. When you enter the MARPS process pre arrears, the bank put you in a queue for a call back, you are told to pay a x amount each month. While they take their sweet time getting through the MARPS process you are clocking arrears, they used to backdate the arrangement to your first call so you don't have arrears but now they do not.
So my sister was waiting from March 2017 - until August 2018 for her now arrangement, they have refused to back date the arrangement , she hasn't missed an agreed monthly payment. Thus they drove her loan into arrears and now she is one of the stats being sold on....
So yes they are driving customers in the MARPS process into arrears while you are waiting for your formal arrangement to be in place.
I have done the complaint route, that's pending since AUgust 2017, follow up every month, still no resolution, have letters asking for more time to look into this,
received a phone call start of August to say it's all a mistake then we get a letter to say her loan is being sold. It's a zoo. Without a resolution letter I can't' even bring it to the FSO to get the credit reports and the arrears cleared.