TV3 Programme on Roma Beggars Mon 15th

We should be outraged.
One beggar could not live on €420 per week from the Social Welfare. (even with the free house, etc).
She need to beg to make up extra money (pickpocketing made the extra extra money I guess)
I know pensioners who have worked all their lives struggling to get by on less and the new charges and taxes will impoverish them.(maybe cut these people out of social welfare, is begging and stealing a job?)

The Reporter never asked his Roma "assistant" who is here from 2002 any questions such as:
How has he supported himself and his family since he arrived here (if on social welfare cause no job, then why did he not look at some other country or even go home, obviously he was able to live most of his life without starving there)

I noticed none of the Roma interviewed at the houses told them to get lost.
The "assistant" had some clout or standing in the community that demanded either fear or respect!

They should not be allowed to intimidate people in the manner they do.

Any other views on the show?

It's a TV3 programme on Roma beggers? Does it really require any further comment?

[broken link removed]

I'm just outraged that any group should be allowed to openly prey on others.

monagt said:

[broken link removed]

I'm just outraged that any group should be allowed to openly prey on others.

Click to expand...

Yeah I imagine that's the reaction TV3 were going for! Agree with Sunny - it does what is says on the tin!

Fianna Fail Senator Terry Leyden there was clearly work to do to improve the levels of integration and understanding of the Roma community among Irish society.
"Our report identifies some practical measures which we feel will help improve the standing of Roma people in Ireland and contribute to them playing a more active role in Irish life," he said.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/call-for-campaign-to-combat-antiroma-racism-1996316.html

Click to expand...

The report referred to the comments made about the Roma community last year by Judge Aingeal Ni Chonduin in the Children's Court. She accused Roma parents of "raising their children to steal" and being responsible for "our shops being robbed blind" The judge was commenting after a 16-year-old mother of one admitted theft of shoes and handling stolen clothes. Mr Leyden distanced himself from the judge's remarks. "Whilst I agree that stealing does not go with our 'ways', I disagree that it's inherent in ethnic minority communities. Crime is a universal problem and it's not only related to migrants," he said.

Click to expand...

One of the few upsides of the depression is idiotic notions put forward by politicians with waaay too much time on their hands and a complete lack of respect for taxpayers money have been put permanently in the bin.

Wonder if he would feel half as warm and fuzzy about the Roma if they moved in beside him...

Living, as I do, in Romania I can categorically state that the learned judge is perfectly right in her assessment of how many Rrom (to give them their correct title) raise their children. Especially the variety that have chosen to migrate from central and eastern Europe to Ireland. There is strong evidence that many Rrom actually maim their children in infancy to make beggars of them.

Some Rrom are indeed craftsmen (silversmiths, makers of musical instruments etc.) and are integrated to a degree but the vast majority are of the type found on the streets of Ireland. Basically a law unto themselves and not in the least interested in living by the norms of the settled community.

Without wanting to veer into racism, I CANNOT understand why the Gardai do not intervene in the cases of heavily pregnant Roma teenagers. The age of consent here is 17, yet there appears to be a significant number of pregnant 12-14 year old Roma girls begging on the streets of Dublin. It may be their culture but it's our law...when in Rome etc...

In Ireland one bends over backwards to accomodate every disgraceful and disgusting habit that is deemed to be part of the "culture" of any ethnic or religious group -whether Irish traveller , Roma gypsy etc (as long as it is not a display of Ulster Protestant culture).
"Respect" for a particular culture, religion or belief is a load of hogwash if they contain abhorrent aspects.

... and I do feel sorry for Romanians when Irish people seem to confuse a civilised and cultured people like the Romanians with Rom/Rrom/Roma/Romany.

oldnick said:

...(as long as it is not a display of Ulster Protestant culture).
..."Respect" for a particular culture, religion or belief is a load of hogwash if they contain abhorrent aspects.

...

Click to expand...

oldnick I'v no problem with Ulster protestant culture (whatever that is), and I don't think most ordinary people do, but when it's about rubbing nationalist noses in 1690 or some other obscure "victory" or other, or treating us to a rendition of "croppy lie down" then that's not respectful of the nationalists. Nor is triumphal parading down nationalist streets .

And also bear in mind that much of Orangism's "traditions" and all that mullarkey are a relatively recent phenomen. It was mostly invented to suit the landowners and factory owners so they could wield political power up North.

Yes,horus, I agreewith all your comments.

Can't stand many aspects of a rather silly ,outdated, largely invented triumphalist tradition -whether it's Orange parades up North, or in ROI the annual commemorations/celebrations/parades (with armed soldiers) of the Easter Rising.
(Another thread one day on all that ?)

My point was that the most repulsive habits of so-called cultures, like the gypsies, seem to be passively accepted here and many Irish are keen not to offend those practising those habits. (it would be "racist" to do so they say).
I just don't see the same tolerance of the -yes silly,offensive etc- customs of one's northern neighbours.

monagt said:

[broken link removed]

I'm just outraged that any group should be allowed to openly prey on others.

Click to expand...

Like politicians with their 'unvouched expenses' and certain protected professions such as judges etc.
These people take far more money from us. At least with Roma we have a choice.

Yes that makes perfect sense cause Politicians and Judges are the ones pick pocketing people, Scamming the system. So thats it then, case closed,...ah sure they are grand, there doing no one any harm god love them...bless us and save us! ,lets go after a Politician again on this one instead...not to get side tracked again.

Give me a brake.

Maximus
Shakes head, twice

"..lets go after the politican again.."

But is anyone really" going after" the politicians, or the bankers ,or others ?
We may moan about their behaviour but they been, in any meaningful way, brought to account ?

How in the name of sanity and moral decency can some of the main retired culprits in banking and politics still earn tens ,if not hundreds ,of thousands every year having brought us to this mess ?

Yes, I think the Romany gypsies are annoying pests, whose behaviour should not be tolerated.
But absolutely the same -and more - should be said of the bankers and politicians who, even in retirement, are paid - even in these dire times - by you and me sums of money that most of us will never ever earn through honest endeavours.

Umop3's post brought some balance to the argument against the gypsies.

oldnick said:

Umop3's post brought some balance to the argument against the gypsies.

Click to expand...

No, it didn't - it sidetracked the argument with a completely different issue.

'Balance to the argument against gypsies' would involve pointing out the positives they bring to our society (to balance the negatives provided above) - perhaps the good works they might do for the elderly and the handicapped or voluntary work in the communities that are providing them with shelter and subsistence... Anything spring to mind to provide real balance? Anyone?

The argument has two aspects : the specific group referred to -and our attitude to it.
On the specific aspect of the Romanies over here; I see no redeeming feature that deserves them getting hand-outs, which only encourage them to continue their parasitical life-style.
The "balance" referred to is in our reaction to and/or feelings about them.

oldnick said:

The argument has two aspects : the specific group referred to -and our attitude to it.
On the specific aspect of the Romanies over here; I see no redeeming feature that deserves them getting hand-outs, which only encourage them to continue their parasitical life-style.
The "balance" referred to is in our reaction to and/or feelings about them.

Click to expand...

I don't understand how you think this applies here. The thread is about how people feel about the Roma - raising the issue that (yawn... really?) politicians and bankers are bad doesn't provided any balance to the way people feel about Roma. Sure, there are worse things affecting society, but that doesn't in any way mitigate the impact of the Roma. You could just as easily say, they are not paedophile priests or bank robbers, they don't torture cats etc. - but so, what? Just because there's other bad stuff in the world, reminding people about this doesn't make us feel warm and fuzzy about the Roma. So I don't see any balance here from raising other issues - I don't think anyone sat back and thought 'phew, I was overreacting about the Roma, they're not so bad after all - I forgot about those dastardly unpunished bankers, politicians, judges...'.

And on a related note, how long will it be before anyone/anything/any behaviour can be legitimately criticised again without someone leaping in with 'yeah, but they are not as bad as the unpunished bankers, developers etc.'?

ORKA...

- what on earth is that comment about feeling "warm and fuzzy about the Roma"? Did anyone say anything to that effect ??!! Did you not read my opinion of them in the previous post ???

- "whataboutism" can be annoying, but when society seems more agitated about bothersome beggars, (many but not all living on state handouts) than they do about far bigger robbers who are taking much more from the state, then surely it's fair to compare the two groups.-even though as per your parenthetical "yawn" the bankers/developer thing is oh so boring .
The behaviour of our own indigenous robber barons may not mitigate the actions ,however petty, of the Roma, but to me they certainly mitigate how I feel about them.

As someone said in a previous post we don't have to give anything to gypsies but we do, every day, have to pay for what the robber-barons have done.

And how long will it be until people stop bringing in the unpunished/politicians etc??
Well, I imagine until they are punished.
or at least stop taking fat paychecks and pension payments from us.