TV Licence

Re: .

Rainyday, did you even read my last post? - Which laws am I 'picking and choosing' to comply with?

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Hi AP - Yep, I read all your posts. I'm not saying that you personally are doing anything illegal. However, you did encourage all readers to "Don't pay it!" and you told us that "Some people have more sense than to unquestionably obey others." - To me, this is encourage others to break the law, i.e. have a TV & not pay the licence.

Some people may well take offence at implications that they are deliberately breaking laws

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The 'mortgaged' poster made it clear that she was fully aware that she was breaking the law, and she continued to do so until she could 'afford' the licence.

Re: Up North

Out of curiosity does anyone know what the situation is in Northern Ireland? Do they need to have TV licenses? Do they have TV license people from south of the border knocking on their doors looking for subs? Or does part of their UK license fee get handed over to our Dept of Comms?

Just curious ...

Re: Recieving equipment

Does anybody know if we should still have a wireless licence?..........I've done me searches, but to no avail.

Rainyday,
I want to correct you on something. Your "hardly on the breadline" comment is a bit much. I did not say that I could not afford a TV Licence after socialising and car.

Firstly, my car is a necessity as I do not work on any direct bus route. What I said was that I was left with €160 per month to cover food for the month, socialising, holidays, lunches, and any other incidental expenses, such as car trouble. Would it surprise you to know that there were no holidays or luxury items or socialising for that matter. Have you been to a Supermarket lately? I call having €160 per month left to live on for a whole month, having just paid essential bills, big time on the breadline. Maybe you are just better budgeting than me.

I am sure there are people out there who would spend that much on a nice meal out on one night.

Being able to afford a TV Licence

Sorry Rainyday, but I agree. If I was left with €160 per month to live on I don't think I would be buying a TV Licence either. Sure you would spend that on food alone. Even by shopping in Lidl/Aldi, and even just shopping for one, youd find it tough going.

Re: Being able to afford a TV Licence

Hi Observer & Mortgaged - As it happens, I still don't believe that it was not possible to save the €7-€8 per month (as it was up to last year) to pay a TV licence. And of course, if you can't afford a TV licence, you should just not have a TV.

But that is not the real issue. The real issue is 'Are we going to allow each individual to pick & choose which laws they comply with?'

Would you accept the 'I couldn't afford it' arguement from an uninsured driver? Presumably not. I can't see why anyone would accept the 'I couldn't afford it' arguement for a TV licence, or for a tax payment or for any other money due to the state.

I find your whining pious tone to be very irritating and condescending rainyday.

It's all very easy to be a smoked salmon socialist sitting in a posh Dublin suburb in D16 lecturing others on what they should and shouldn't pay.

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Rainyday, I think the TV license is a bit more than that. AFAIK it is now 150 p/a which is 12.50 p/m.
I can't afford that either. Nor can I afford the bin charges. A lot of people just trying to start out in life, buying homes etc, are forced to push themselves to the financial limit, and they cannot cope with license charges that suddenly rise at a higher rate than wages, and new taxes that they didn't predict and therefore couldn't budget for. All of a sudden they find themselves being called spongers or criminals.

I don't think taking a black and white view of this issue is a very realistic one. People have different circumstances. You are lucky enough to be comfortably off, but not everybody is. That's why people are taxed differently. Large companies, huge banks, the state itself will listen to and sometimes accept the "I can't afford it" argument from people, why won't you?

Re: .

In fairness Rainyday is only stating what the legal position is. If you have a TV you must pay your TV license. If you can't afford to pay for the license then you can't afford television. It is black and white - the law is a rather blunt instrument and doesn't deal in shades of grey. You either have a TV or not and hence you are either obliged to pay the TV license or not. It's similarly black and white that if you commit a crime (for whatever reason) you're a criminal. Remember the laws are made by the government you elected. It's not rainyday's fault you don't like some of the laws. It's up to you to get them changed.

Ditto for bin charges - if you wan't your rubbish removed you pay for it, if not you can keep it.

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It is black and white - the law is a rather blunt instrument and doesn't deal in shades of grey.

The law most certainly does deal in shades of grey! That is why there are courts, solicitors, judges & juries etc.

Remember the laws are made by the government you elected. It's not rainyday's fault you don't like some of the laws. It's up to you to get them changed.

This is a bit of a joke. 'The government I elected'? Every few years I go through the farce of filling in my voting slip, so that the same, mediocre parties can get re-elected. People voting for whomever their families voted for, or whoever's picture looks nicest, without reading the first line of a manifesto.

Remember that the Government are simply a group of people who want power, and have ceased control of the country.

Ditto for bin charges - if you wan't your rubbish removed you pay for it, if not you can keep it.

This apparently isn't the case. You are (quite rightly) not allowed to have rubbish strewn around your premises. The county council makes the assumption that people wish to use their service, even though a contract hasn't been signed.

I notice too that some bright spark civil servant has decided to give away a Merc in the most recent attempt to get people to pay. A Merc! Could they have thought of anything less environmentally friendly? It's also a foreign product. Not good for the economy.

Re: .

I'm pretty sure (can't find the official wording) that the relevant charge is a Service Charge, not a "bin" charge or tax.

It relates to more than the cost of removing rubbish.

Apparently.

z

Re.

In fairness to RainyDay, he is only stating the law and that you cannot pick and choose which ones you want to abide by. To Penny Foolish, I too am a first time buyer and in all fairness, if you have the money to buy a tv in the first place then you should make sure you can afford the license, simple as that. You can try and justify it all you want but it is really that simple. There are plenty of things you can hold off on when moving in to a new house but I have to agree with RainyDay in that law breaking is not one of them (and I'm not trying to be pious or anything).

Re: .

The law most certainly does deal in shades of grey! That is why there are courts, solicitors, judges & juries etc.

They are deciding whether the grey is in fact black or white; you commited murder or you didn't, you stole something or you didn't, etc. The judges, juries etc. are there to decide what is applicable (i.e. did you have a television and not have a license for it?) - they don't get to decide that it applied, but let them off because they don't watch RTE, are never at home, or whatever excuse there might have been.

This is a bit of a joke. 'The government I elected'?

OK, the government you and I elected. I was impying (poorly I admit) that we are all to blame if the coutry is not run properly.

I couldn't agree more with your view on how we vote in this country. That's what has us in this mess. There is no link between running the country well/poorly and being (re-)elected. Hence a government who doesn't raise income tax, but adds another inefficient stealth tax gets re-elected. A government with the balls to raise revenue through the (probabbly) most efficient and fairest means at their disposal (income tax) will be hounded from office.

Remember that the Government are simply a group of people who want power, and have ceased control of the country.

Or rather, we have given it to them...

Attitude

I am sure there are plenty of people out there who cannot afford TV Licences, bin charges, etc. That type of money is a lot to pay out, especially like the first time buyers, you are trying to furnish a house and probably have loans everywhere.

Saying not to get a car or a TV is just simply unrealistic.

Rainyday's "I do not believe you cant afford it" comments are unfair and after all, its not what about you believe, if people are saying they cant afford it, I am sure most people are being genuine and should be given a bit of space, not spoken to like they had just committed high treason. After all, if people are trying to make ends meet, I am sure they couldn't give a hoot about what you think, and more power to them.

Its not the points Rainyday is trying to make that I object to, like the other posters, its the condescending attitude.

Hi US

I find your whining pious tone to be very irritating and condescending rainyday.

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Thanks for the feedback - I'll give it all the attention it deserves.

It's all very easy to be a smoked salmon socialist sitting in a posh Dublin suburb in D16 lecturing others on what they should and shouldn't pay.

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I'm not sure I see the relevance of my food preferences, my political views or my house location on this one. Do you have anything constructive to add to the debate, or do you just confine yourself to barbed comments?

Rainyday, I think the TV license is a bit more than that. AFAIK it is now 150 p/a which is 12.50 p/m.

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Hi Penny Foolish - You are correct, but I was referring to the last three year period for which 'Mortgaged' has not paid her licence.

A lot of people just trying to start out in life, buying homes etc, are forced to push themselves to the financial limit

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No-one is forced to do anything. We all make choices in life and we have to live with the impact of those choices. I simply find it unreasonable & unacceptable that others choose to break the law and deprive the state of funding at their own discretion.

I don't think taking a black and white view of this issue is a very realistic one.

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Ah but the black & white view is cheaper than the colour view :rollin Sorry, couldn't resist.

You are lucky enough to be comfortably off, but not everybody is. That's why people are taxed differently.

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Exactly, but there are no provisions in the TV licence scheme for low income persons. If there was, or if Mortgaged & AP & others were out on the streets trying to make this happen, I would have some respect for their approach. But they are not - they are choosing to have a TV & not pay the licence - therefore, they are sponging off the rest of us.

Hi Dearg Doom/Ceist Beag-It's nice to see that I'm not totally isolated out here. Thanks for your comments.

Hi First Time Buyer

Saying not to get a car or a TV is just simply unrealistic.

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This is sheer rubbish-Get a bike or get a moped or get a bus -Don't expect me to subsidise your TV viewing while you enjoy spending the licence fee on your furniture.

should be given a bit of space, not spoken to like they had just committed high treason.

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The high treason comment is pure exaggeration. I'm not suggesting that spongers should be locked up & throw away the key. I am suggesting that we clearly & directly call it like it is - it's sponging.

After all, if people are trying to make ends meet, I am sure they couldn't give a hoot about what you think, and more power to them.

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I think their reaction to my comments contradicts this, as they seem to be quite concerned about being labelled as a sponger. But sometimes the truth hurts - it is still the truth. I seem to detect a touch of denial as the spongers want to have their lawbreaking excused & swept under the carpet. But I'm not prepared to do that.

Its not the points Rainyday is trying to make that I object to, like the other posters, its the condescending attitude.

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I really don't think I have been condescending or patronising. I have been clear & direct, something which we Irish don't seem to be very used to - we prefer to be vague & hypocritical (breaking the laws that we don't like ourselves while expecting others to hold to a different standard).

Rudeness

No, Rainyday, I dont think you have hit a nerve with the people who dont buy a TV Licence, it looks like its you who is trying to justify over and over again being downright rude to people, which there is no need for. They are simply stating their case in point, which they are perfectly entitled to do.

You objected to the "smoked salmon" comment. Maybe it is too near the knuckle for you. ??

Everyones opinion is just as valid as everybody elses. I have no problem with anybody expressing their view, but there seems to be an increasing amount of direct rude comments to people.

This is just my opinion, but trying to put someone down is far more serious than no TV Licence.

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If there was, or if Mortgaged & AP & others were out on the streets trying to make this happen, I would have some respect for their approach. But they are not - they are choosing to have a TV & not pay the licence - therefore, they are sponging off the rest of us.

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I DO NOT OWN A TELEVISION!!!!!

I am pleased to be able to voice my objection to the TV licence via Ask About Money. Maybe at a later date, when I have more time, I will use other channels.

TV license

Interesting debate,

I too am a firsttimebuyer, have bought on my own and all of a sudden am and will be for the foreseeable future very broke. So Mortgaged I trueily sympathise with you and am going through pretty much the same thing. Unfortunately the simply truth is:

If you cant afford a tv license, then dont buy a tv or pack your current one away until you can budget for it.

While cars might be necessary for work, picking up kids etc a TV isnt. We have all gotten used to having a TV and its an everyday thing now (wasnt it Joey from Friends who said "no TV? But where does all you furniture point???") it is still though a luxury item especially, Mortgaged, for the likes of you and me.

I know its boring but that is the answer.

Rudeness

I don't know why you guys even entertain the 's s socialists' comments. Ignore him, and he might do some productive work for his employer for a change.

Re: .

Folks,
I think the fundamental problem here is that the TV license was introduced way back in the stone age when the only people who owned a TV were the posho's on the corner who had a black and white where we'd all go around and watch the Eurovision but only after the TV had been turned on the previous September in order to give it time to warm up after which we'd all go home with radiation sickness this is a really long sentence.

I don't think there's any need to debate the fundamental point that we need to fund a public service broadcaster (TV and Radio). I don't know the exact details of where the money goes. For instance, I don't know if the RTE Concert or Symphony orchestras get any of it. I presume RTE pays them. But maybe that aspect should be dealt with in a separate thread.

My point is, should we abolish the TV license altogether and introduce a new (or increase an existing) tax? The TV license method of collection is unfair. There's no denying that. Isn't it straightforward that if everyone paid, it would be lower?

What about those people who don't watch/have a TV? Well I'm sure the taxes that we pay go towards all sorts of things. And I'm sure that we, as individuals, may not benefit from everything that the state provides. I'd rather have a proper, up-front tax rather than a half-hearted attempt to collect fees from selected people (they seem to like houses with satellite dishes) and not others. Whatever your stance, that just isn't fair. Imagine if taxes were treated this way. Another truth is that the TV license is a tax. It's money collected by the government to fund a public service.

So I think the whole situation should be brought up to date as it's currently being exercised on the basis of TV ownership trends of a bygone age.