Tulip House Budapest

Hi Budapest/Hungary/AutoNo offence intended to anyone else)

Some time ago my efforts to buy an apartment in Budapest (Godsu Court) fell through and I am now trying to dip my toe in the water again. I am flying to Budapest on Wed next to view the site of a new development and meet with the agency who are selling them. I also have a meeting organised through the agents to discuss getting a mortgate for the purchase.

I would appreciate your opinions on this development in District 13 called Tulip House. The agents are Casaro. I recalled some posts way back re this company and as the search engine has cofirmed they didn't exactly get glowing recommendations on this forum. The apt is 47m2 2bed 4th floor and courtyard facing . It is 1.515@m2 and parking(which is compulsary) is 9.950 and storage 1.700.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated
Thanks

I have committed to one and possibly two of these, but through an Irish agent who is very close to the family that owns Casaro. I bought one in a previous project from this developer and it did everything it said on the tin, so to speak -- finished more or less on time, to a good standard, and rented within weeks of completion. To be fair, I probably had a head start on the other owners in the block; I actually had it furnished about a week before it was handed over to me and had it on the rental market from the day of completion. I had been watching the project and knew that my apartment was actually complete before the project was finished out, and they let me deliver the furniture ahead of time. I asked a few weeks back though, and the entire block is either let or sold to owner-occupiers.

From what I know of the family that own Casaro, it is now run by the son of the original owner, and he seems to be much sharper. I looked at a shopping centre that they developed recently and it was very well planned and tenanted and will make someone a very nice pension fund. You would probably be better dealing with them through an agent though, someone who can put the squeeze on them if problems arise. You won't save any money by going direct to them I would say.

Tulip house is a small infill development in a good residential area, and the price is right at about 1,500 euro psm. Good basic rental property that will be a good steady grower and renter. Not wildly exciting; more a safe bet.

I don't like giving legs to rumours, but there is a rumour going round that Casaro are getting out of sales altogether and concentrating on development only. Probably less headaches, I can't understand why anyone would want to deal with the public (except of course the posters to this board).

Hello Kathryn,

a development to keep an eye on is Gizella Park (IX). It's only 50m away from Mill Lofts, another exciting project - but way more expensive (ok, other finishes too).
I bought an apartment in Gizella last week, directly from the developer.
There were big problems finishing the project (was due for July 06), as the constructer went bankrupt but now the project is ready for handover and it looks really nice.

If you go to Budapest (the city), you should try to meet with Budapest (the property viewer). He's really in the know + a cool guy to have drinks with

You can always PM me if you want more info.

Greets,

Wouter

Gozsdu Udvar is in a totally different league, but priced accordingly too.

Tulip House sounds fine for rental, Kathryn. If you decide to pursue it, make sure to buy a quiet, bright apartment and put extra effort into furnishing it well. Nobody I know would live there in a fit, but certain tenants do seem to like these type of developments in District XIII and many businesses are located here, so it will suit some people. Similar developments seem to have rented quite easily. It's close to KIKA, so furnishing will be easy! If you're looking for easy rental, that's one thing, but if you're more interested in potential capital appreciation, in my opinion, this is possibly not the best place to find it. There are still some great renovated properties in the best parts of the city centre for €1200-€1500/sqm. They're very difficult to find, but they do exist. IMHO, it's unlikely that a very average development in the not-so-pretty suburbs will keep pace with such properties in the long term.

The company you mentioned has a terrible reputation in many respects, but maybe they've changed the way they do business?

Hello kathryn,

The development, according to technical description and location, sounds interesting

My experience with an apartment house build by Casaro in this area is ambivalent. While the apartment (54 sqm 2 bed with big balcony) was rented very soon after fitout was done but their assisntance in handover was awful. For instance, arranged appointment was to be cancelled due to lack of key to the apartment. I went to the building at 9 am to close the sale and their representative said to me, who was in late with 20 mins, key is not available at that moment. Another case when they forgot the arranged appointment at 8.30 am. I was waiting for half an hour without any notice...

However the apartment was rented quickly for €540 without car parking, basic kitchen was a nightmare:

- very low standard
- ugly colour
- not designed and modern
- low standard "no name" electrical appliances were given

We had to add more cabintes to basic kitchen but it did not become nicer.

I have an another horror story with them when I was kicked off from their office because I wanted to get a chance to have an access to an apartment before handover and they did not want to organise an apartment tour. This owner paid more than €12K for very low standard kitchen and basic fitout in a one bed apartment. Probably she was overcharged by 50% more than normal price for that rubish job. At the end, this one bed apartment was rented by €360 (district 6, 56 sqm). I said to them "How can I trust you If you are able to rip her off with 50%"

I suggest you pay more attantion to small details such as clarify the kitchen furniture, electrical appliances. If it is possible, it is better to do it by yourself. Modern kitchen is the real part of the apartment in terms of sales as well. Casaro is very good at sales but ther after sale services can be better. Be very careful with them!

It seems pros and cons would be 50-50 but good return in short term is expected.

I would be happy to meet up you here in Budapest. I also expect to relocate from district 5 to district 13

Hungary said:

For instance, arranged appointment was to be cancelled due to lack of key to the apartment. I went to the building at 9 am to close the sale and their representative said to me, who was in late with 20 mins, key is not available at that moment. Another case when they forgot the arranged appointment at 8.30 am. I was waiting for half an hour without any notice...

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This sounds so familiar

Bon soir Wouter

Hope all is well with you in Belgium. Althouh I have no any positive experience with Casaro but they offer developments which may have good return. Tulip House is also one of them.

How about Castrum?

I have never dealt with the sales wing of Casaro, but they are good developers with a god eye to the local market. My experiences with them as developers were ok, no problems with the property in any case.

I would be slow to judge their development side by an experience with some jackass of a salesman. In my mind, if a company has a good product, I don't worry too much how sloppy their sales team is. The important thing from an investor point of view is that the property is well priced and well located, and the stuff they are doing ticks all the boxes for me in any case. I really don't lose too much sleep about their sales wing and how good or bad it is; it's not really relevant to the quality of the project.

Good luck with your purchase, it should do well for you.

Many thanks to you all for taking the time to offer your advice. I will let you know how I get on.

I think we could compete with each other with our negative experiences of this company. The worst example I can think of is a couple of years ago, I found one property for sale at 42M with them, but at 26M with a local company. On another occassion, one of their agents basically screamed at me for not buying a really awful apartment in District V, which the agent thought was the bargain of a lifetime. It was a dump. The list could go on, but I agree with the other posters that if the product is what you're looking for, then their sales staff aren't so important.

kathryn, for the last 6 year I've bought and sold several properties in budapest some of them via casaro including 1 unit tulip, I 've good and bad experience with casaro, good and bad experience with other agencies and nightmare with capital eyes. all in all the main consideration is - can you make a profit on this project (which I understand casaro is building not only offering as agents), the most important is to understand that the leval of service which you can get in hungary is different from what you used to get in other places and you set your expectations accordingly.

There's definitely good and bad in Hungary, but it's certainly not as bleak as you suggest! Taking the time to build up good contacts and relationships is vital and I've had mostly excellent experiences with people I've worked with. This is not always easy, but in my opinion, is definitely worth doing if you intend to invest here or anywhere else for that matter.

budapest I understand that you are an agent of some kind and therefore think that critizing competitors the way you do is out of place

I'm not an estate agent. I am an investor in the Budapest market and if other investors ask me to help locate properties, then I can sometimes assist them as a property locator. I have never criticised any competitor on this board. I merely referred to my personal experiences with Casaro in the same way as several others have done. Over the past five years, I've dealt with the majority of local and international estate agents over here and my experiences with this company have been very low down the list.

To re-clarify, I didn't say that this development was a bad investment, just that the people I know in Hungary would not rent or buy here. However, other locals like the area and chances are that it will rent well to those who don't want to live in the city centre. IMO, the risk is in terms of capital appreciation potential as I don't think it will perform as well as better-located properties. However, as a low-risk, low-hassle addition to a balanced portfolio, I can see that it makes sense. Casaro have quite a good reputation as developers but not as estate agents.

This thread is getting bitchy! Not answering the OPs query.

Bottom line is that almost everyone is agreed tha this development is worth the money, exceptions being posters who prefer old properties. Mixed feelings on the sales team, but that's irrelevant to the issue.

Good luck with your purchase, you won't go too far wrong with it. If the salesman keps you waiting for half an hour, then you had been warned about this "risk", but it has nothing to do with the merits olf what they are selling.

Reference to Auto's post, I absolutly agree with his point of view. It does not make sense to go into argument regarding our professional and interest in Budapest property market. Further to that, we do not have to like the developer or real-estate agent becaus we should focus on the investment instead.

However, it is better to know the developer and estate agancy you intend to work with. You will not surprised if its service is not that you expect. You will not cry for unprofessional assistance in purchasing process if you are compensated with good return.

According to yields you can reach in this area, I still suggest Cathryn purchase an apartment for her apartment portfolio.

budapest said:

I'm not an estate agent. I am an investor in the Budapest market

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dear ruszik declaring your self as an investor is a twist of facts since according to the PM you send you are the owner of a property management agency in budapest (bpartner) of which I heard mixed reaction as well, being a constant watcher of this form I think that before critisizing someone else you should declare your conflict of interest.

lee-m, I think you need to re-check your facts. I didn't send you any PM and have no connection to any property management company.

Hey Guys (budapest and lee-m)

lee-m, I ask you to modify your post because I am not budapest. It is true that I sent you a PM but the post you refer to is sent by budapest.

My name is very important for me. Discredit my personality in public way cannot be a simple mistake. Please correct it as soon as possible.

budapest, please clarify your point of view as well because you know me very well.

I need a public apologise as soon as possible.

Hope you understand why I am concerned with this fatal error you made it with my name.

Thank you for your understanding

budapest apologize for mixing you and hungary, it does not change my view on the fact that both of you are in the market looking for clients and should state it before making any declerations towards a 3rd party