Trying to move from one pension provider to another -- running into problems

Hi all,

I thought that I might see if I could get some advice on the situation below. It's a bit of an awkward situation, involving two pension providers, and I'm not sure which provider is being reasonable, and which is not.

A few years ago I set up a PRSA with a pension provider (A), and began paying into it. Recently I joined a different pension provider through a new employment. This new provider (B) has an occupational pension scheme for my employer, which they administer and I joined. The plan offered by B appears to be better than the PRSA I have with A, so I thought that I'd try to get the money I have in the A PRSA transferred to the B plan. Checking with both providers, this seemed to be perfectly possible, and no problem.

The issue arises in that for A to make the transfer to B, A requires a "willing and able" letter from B. However, in order to issue such a letter, B requires a "transfer of benefits" form be filled out by A, providing details on my PRSA with A (apparently, B can't confirm that they are "willing and able" until they know the details of what's going on with A. And then, in turn, it appears that A aren't willing to fill out this transfer form without the "willing and able" letter.

In the end, it appears that we're in a bit of a stalemate, and neither pension provider is willing to act before the other does. This has been going on, back and forth, for almost a month now.

Now, for my question: is this normal? Which party is being unreasonable (if any)? If I should be increasing the level of pressure I'm applying, which side should I do it to?

Appreciate any advice that the experts may be able to provide.

Fill out the transfer of benefits form and be done with it.

Gerard

www.prsa.ie

I have never before heard of this trouble over a willing and able letter which is literally an email saying "we are willing and able to accept this transfer"

Are you a member of the occupational pension scheme? If so, the administrator should be able to send it.

why don't you send company B a benefit statement so they can see what benefits you have?


Steven
http://www.bluewaterfp.ie (www.bluewaterfp.ie)

IMHO, with the way service is at the moment @SBarrett , with staff at home reading from procedural manuals, it'd be easier to fill in what they're looking for than trying to get a team leader to override any requirement that seems excessive.

GSheehy said:

IMHO, with the way service is at the moment @SBarrett , with staff at home reading from procedural manuals, it'd be easier to fill in what they're looking for than trying to get a team leader to override any requirement that seems excessive.

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Agree. Arguing against procedures drawn up by someone in compliance is a pointless exercise. Easier to give in.

GSheehy said:

Fill out the transfer of benefits form and be done with it.

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Unfortunately the Transfer of benefits form needs to be filled out (and signed etc) by A. It's very clearly directed at the PRSA provider rather than me.

I've got a bit clearer picture of things currently, and I think that it can be summarized as

- In order for A to transfer my fund value to B, A requires a "willing and able" letter from B
- In order to provide "willing and able", B requires a "transfer of benefits" form from A
- In order for A to fill out "transfer of benefits" form, A requires a copy of "revenue approval letter" re the scheme from B
- In order for B to send a copy of the "revenue approval letter" to A, ... ?

Well, I'm not quite sure why B can't send over a copy of the revenue approval letter to A, so I'm trying to figure that out currently. It's like untangling a knot of threads, except that each thread takes 4 emails and 1-2 weeks to figure out, and none of the other participants are particularly interested in helping out. I can't understand it -- surely these big, mainstream companies have done this kind of thing before?

SBarrett said:

Are you a member of the occupational pension scheme? If so, the administrator should be able to send it.

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I'm not sure who the administrator is -- do you mean the company that is managing the scheme for my employer? Or would this be a contact at my employer? In the various documentation I have, a contact within my employer is listed for the plan -- if things drag on, maybe I should contact them? It depends a bit on whether the problem is on the side of A (where my employer wouldn't be able to do anything) or B (where they perhaps could add some pressure), I imagine.

Anyway, thanks for the advice so far, everybody. Appreciate it.

Both companies are being somewhat unreasonable. Transferring a PRSA to a DC scheme has one main requirement from a revenue rule perspective, that is that the receiving scheme has full scheme approval.

Assuming that there is no pension asjustment order (PAO) attaching to the PRSA there really is nothing else preventing the transfer from taking place.

Are you in contact directly with both companies or are you using a broker / scheme advisor? I’d suggest writing an email to both companies - addressing both companies on the one email asking why they are butting heads on this - maybe not using my exact words! Once the receiving scheme is approved & no PAO applies to the PRSA they should just complete the form & send that along with the w&a letter. This is a very normal transaction for them to be doing on a daily basis. If you have a broker / advisor ask them to raise this with their scheme rep / consultant for the company.

I had a similar problem some years ago - an old occupational scheme was wound down and I needed to transfer the balance to a new scheme. I already had a PRSA, so it should have been straightforward from my point of view. I met with the administrators of the old scheme, filled in all their paperwork, I had the PRSA details available and thought that was it. A few months later I had to get involved to find out what the hold up was (as the transfer value depended on the date liquidated) and it was similar to what was described by @martin above.

I agree with @Smoneen - email both parties and put the onus back on them. I think I mentioned I might complain to a higher authority and/or move all my PRSA funds if they couldn't sort it out between them.