thanks nutty nut and roam, i had a look at true windows already but was concerned that they and a lot of other window companies use scandanavian pine which hasn't really been tested over a long enough period in ireland. they also tend to be heavily lacquered making them look more like pvc windows than wood and what happens in 5 years when they need to be treated again, do you have to strip all that hard lacquer off first. i would like to get teak windows that i could treat with teak oil, i got a quotation from kiernan & mc goldricks but cant find anyone who has used them and i've heard so many horror stories of people having problems with their windows that i'm a bit wary. a visit to those joinerys quoted might be an idea , anyone else used them?.