Thinking of selling a rental property? You should probably get a move on...

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Good riddance to small landlords for the most part. There are more than enough cold, overpriced, and overcrowded hovels around the place, increasing or even retaining that number is not the answer. (I know there are good landlords as well, but they've always been well outnumbered by the gougers). At least institutional landlords rent out high spec properties- there is no lower end of the market now and there hasn't been for years.

There are other- and much better- solutions to increase the supply of rented accommodation than minimising landlord obligations to the detriment of tenants and reducing tax liabilities on rental income.

In Germany for example there are loads of what they call Baugenossenschaft, literally translating as a building cooperative. They're very similar to credit unions here, except instead of issuing loans they build apartments which they rent to their members. Any profits are put into refunds of rent or construction of new dwellings. The result is that members can access secure, affordable, and well looked after rental properties which usually benefit from district heating etc. They're not palaces for sure, but they tend to be pretty good.

For the life of me I can't understand why nobody seems to be even considering a similar option here. And no, cost-rental isn't similar- that's effectively social housing at higher rental.
 
SquirrelChaser said:
For the life of me I can't understand why nobody seems to be even considering a similar option here.
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Perhaps because there are so few who are prepared to actually put in any effort at all? The countless threads of issues with management companies here would suggest many don't want to put in the effort and are happier complaining about the efforts of the few who do.
 

Approved housing bodies

Approved housing bodies are independent, not-for-profit organisations that provide affordable rented housing for people who cannot afford to pay private sector rents or buy their own homes.
www.citizensinformation.ie
 
Not sure where your getting your stats from (quote them if you can?), but its always the minority that ruin it for all.. I would say their are far more good small landlords than bad, like everything you only hear about the bad..

And yes their are solutions im sure, isnt this what the government supposed to come up with? All the 'solutions' they have come up with so far has just made things worse!
 
Best landlord I ever had was a fund who professionally managed the apartment complex.

Quick repairs, zero vacancies, anti-social behaviour stamped out rapidly.

You just will never get this in a complex with a mix of owner occupiers and amateur landlords with a limited interest in their property.
 
Funds are definitely far better alright. They have a professional team of tradespeople on call - each complex will have a caretaker able to carryout minor repairs etc. Plus expensive solicitors to deal with those engaging with anti-social behaviour. The amateur landlord just cannot provide that level of service. I find I spend a lot of time simply chasing the plumber, electrician or handyman begging them to call - they are so busy these days they are not overly interested in small jobs.

Plus a fund will never want to provide accommodation to a child or will never have to sell with vacant possession - the entire block will be sold to another fund.

Definitely better for tenants, but they aren't popular 'vulture funds' etc. etc.
 
Dr Strangelove said:
Best landlord I ever had was a fund who professionally managed the apartment complex.
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I think that's perhaps the key, they were professionals. I had quite a mix of experiences with landlords in my past from downright awful to excellent, all private individuals. The best of them understood it was a business and one that requires a certain input on their part. The worst were inevitably the ones who wanted nothing to do with running a business aside from collecting the income.
 
Perhaps because there are so few who are prepared to actually put in any effort at all?
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Perhaps because until relatively recently nobody wanted to fund housing. I don't really care what the plan should be, what ideology one decide to go for in terms of rentals. The reality is that rentals are needed and that need is not going to disappear. I don't believe that corporate landlords will ever be able to provide fully, in every part of Ireland. They are generally highly criticized in the media and by some political parties. High standard also come with high costs. I know that I wouldn't have been able to pay for their service when I rented. I don't know if the solution is to develop public housing to a huge extent with also a huge bill for the state. (I am somewhat concerned when I see in the media the some substandard accommodation provided by the state).
However, creating disincentives for small LL to stay in the market currently is ludicrous considering the lack of availability, the huge demand and the desperation of people trying to find rentals. I would also suspect the disincentives really only apply to LL who have decided to follow the rules and legislation. Why would any LL who doesn't respect the rpz zone, has no issues increasing the rent to the high market... currently leave the market? I rented for 10 years. Some places were really not up to any standard at all. However I needed accommodation and then moved on. Getting rid of private rental accommodation/LL now because it could be provided better in the future by other means is a ridiculous plan. If the plan is to get rid of private LL, great but provide alternatives in appropriate numbers first.
 
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It isn't either/or in terms of small versus corporate landlords. Supply is needed and if it is a question of small landlords providing temporary supply, that can only help in my book given the dire shortages. I'm suspicious of the motives of people looking to 'drive' small landlords out of the market, to me the logic just doesn't hold up, I always suspect ulterior motives, that they are profiting somehow from the construction or fund industry by removing cheaper competition.

We have RPZ's capping rent increases, yet rents have gone up in RPZ areas in recent years at annual rates up to 7 times the maximum 2% allowable under RPZ's. A lot of that has to be driven by the new units coming on to the market, that's a big premium to pay to have a professional landlord.

They already tax corporate landlords differently, so why not regulate them differently, leases of indefinite duration required for corporates, shorter term leases allowable for small landlords and an expedited process to remove non-paying tenants for both. Heavier regulation in general can apply for corporates. Let the market decide on the trade off between more secure leases and professional management versus shorter term leases, lower rent and less professional management.
 
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In my renting years, I only had one 'good' landlord, and that's just a landlord who mainly left us alone and wasn't renting out a hovel. Nothing went wrong, and the place got a lock of paint without disrupting us.
 
Fortune said:
In my renting years, I only had one 'good' landlord, and that's just a landlord who mainly left us alone and wasn't renting out a hovel. Nothing went wrong, and the place got a lock of paint without disrupting us.
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OK so not fact just your experience
Would just like to add, their are plenty of bad tenants as well, overholding, not paying rent, destroying property etc, but Im sure its the minority.. and I do think this is what drives most small landlords away from renting out their property - myself included..
 
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Just some anecdotes; I'm not aware of any statistics recorded for this type of thing.
 
I've only ever had excellent tenants.
This however has not stopped me from getting out in the last few years.
Past performance is not indicative of future results and all that?!
 
Its just the nature of the game.[Human nature]It can bring out the worst in people,landlords or tenants.I think.[" dont sweat the small stuff" might help]
 
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@Greenbook how many repairs are needed tho in a given year, unless you are living in a dump (which I assume is unlikely due to RTB), then higher rents and increases every year are worth it just to cover the odd job?

@RonnieShinbal88 very good points.. wonder why such hatred of the small landlord, it is jealousy or some other motive? Dont understand!

Anyway, next year their will be one less well maintained, low rent, no yearly increase property and another poor family in desperate need of accomadation, thanks to all who are slowly getting rid of the small landlord..
 
colin44 said:
@RonnieShinbal88 very good points.. wonder why such hatred of the small landlord, it is jealousy or some other motive? Dont understand!
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Jealousy? Unlikely given how many of our legislators are landlords themselves. But legislators need to get reelected and are driven by succeeding in that endeavour that almost any other cause. For our part, the electorate don't seem to value more pragmatic but longer term thinking. Most politicians know rent controls don't work, but when the only short term lever you have is rent controls, you pull it.
 
But Im not only referring to rent controls - everything else thats all in favour of the tenant and very little protection, and inneffective at that , for the landlord..
Jealousy, I refer not to politicians but every one else, their seems to be alot of aggression towards landlords.. I dont know why.. Yes their are bad landlords, but the majority are fine, and have their benefits compared to the bigger landlords..

For example, a earlier post and I quote "Good riddance to small landlords for the most part. There are more than enough cold, overpriced, and overcrowded hovels around the place, increasing or even retaining that number is not the answer. "

Why such aggression - I dont mind at all, them enforcing rules to prevent the above.. thats a good thing - but possibly preventing me from selling my investment in the future, oveholding tenants, tenants not paying rent and not able to get them out etc,, all so unreasonable.

Its as if the small landlord is the cause of the issue..

And as a result I will be exasperating the issue next year when I sell, before it gets worse for me..

I just dont get it.. but this is the position we find ourselves in with all the bad decisions that have been made, it will get even worse..

I understand wanting to get votes, so rather than meaningful policies that would actually help alleviate the issue, they are just after votes and saying what the majority want to hear, and making the issue worse..

Politics eh, what a load..
 
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colin44 said:
everything else thats all in favour of the tenant and very little protection, and inneffective at that , for the landlord..
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It's not uncommon in business for the legal protections to favour the consumer.

colin44 said:
Jealousy, I refer not to politicians but every one else, their seems to be alot of aggression towards landlords..
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I just don't see aggression, bad press now and again yes, but not aggression. Our press is heavily biased towards reporting on the instances of a tenant being cheated than the other way around. That story is just more popular as most people can out themselves in the position of a tenant, only a minority have experienced being a landlord to a poor tenant. I think most rational people you talk to would certainly not chose to become a landlord, but I think most understand they are, for the most part just regular people like you and me. They are far from jealous.
 
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