The tough life of the 'hardened unemployed'

It is a great pity to see so many of our young leave us.

It is a great loss to us all.

But for them, to have the opportunity to get out of here would be great.
It must be very frustrating for them(some of them) to be stuck at home with no job /prospects.

We may have to suffer their loss ,to give them a future they deserve.

It seems it will be a long time before this country gets its act together, and if they stay here what future do they have?

I am advising mine to get a degree/qualification that they can travel with. So that they at least have that option.
 
If the politicians were forced out of the country, it would increase average intelligence in Ireland (instead of a brain drain).

Yet again people are forced to leave the country because Irish politicians have failed.
 
Ok, So we know the reason why and we know who's fault it is.

So next we need to sort it out.

No one likes to see a brain drain, But sadly this is what I would prefer for my kids.
Rather than staying here in this god forsaken country, with little prospects and hanging around doing nothing for years.
 
I think we need to modify the way we contribute to the welfare of other people. We must divide between those who contributed to the pod and those who did not or not for long periods.

Unemployment after having been in work:

If one becomes unemployed after having worked for set period of time and having contributed to the PRSI the person should get financial aid in case they become unemployed.

Rather than a fixed amount they should get 60% of their net salary of the previous 12 month and the duration should depend on how long they have contributed to the insurance. The more and longer you paid in the more and longer you get out.

This is depending on the person seeking new employment and regular having contact to social welfare office.

Social welfare after above period or for people that did not contribute:

Once the entitlement in this program has lapsed the state than should ensure that the person gets enough support from the state to cover the cost of the minimum existence.

This must be enough to cover the cost of a rented flat, heating, power and living plus additional for certain situations (children, pregnant etc).
But this also must be only paid if there is a need. A person that has wealth or other income (child maintenance by divorced fathers etc.) must see a reduction of such payments.

This is fairer than the “one for all” attitude that is currently practiced.
 
Hardened unemployed

I dont know why people think they all live in grim dodgy areas. Before I moved house three years ago, lots of people who had bought their houses at the same time (which doubled in value) were able to move on and keep their first house and rent out.

Where I lived, there ended up being a huge amount of renters, most to EHB. So, I was working my backside off and they were standing at their front doors in the morning, watching me going to work for the day.

I got completely cheesed off paying the mortgage and still no better off than a council house, so ended up having to up my mortgage by 100K and put added pressure on myself.

Bigger mortgage, but feel much happier now.
 
There must be a reward to working vs not working.

Taxes on low incomes need to be kept low, to maintain this reward.

Un should not be seen as an option.

Therefore, those who do not work and pay PRSI should be worse-off.

Workers should end up with better un payments, better pensions, etc. than those who do not work.

Indeed, by turning the welfare system around, we protect and reward those who work and contribute, rather than supporting people who do not work.

By work here, I mean part-time, temp, 3-day week, supported employment, apprentices, re-training, etc. Any and all types of participation in the lab mkt.

Disability benefit: I feel that all adults are "able" to work, in some fashion, and should be supported, helped. I don't accept defining somebody as unable to work. I think this benefit should be reformed.

Here's another somewhat radical idea: What about giving medical cards only to those who work??

Or give (free) health ins to those who pay PRSI, and medical cards to those who do not or have not worked?

Am I mad?
 
i don't envy a 22 year-old single mother who never got any proper education her free council flat - i'm sorry for her and at the same time angry, because her kid will most likely follow in her steps - it will know everything about how to use /and misuse/ the social benefit system but it will never be given a chance by his parent/s to get a decent education and good life ..
sitting in a garden or in front of your council house with a six-pack and a one-way barbecue while others are at work might sound almost attractive for one day, particularly if that of yours was difficult at work but there is nothing productive and constructive about it
these people are stuck in a rut more than any of the working people because while someone who has a good education and a job most likely have enough experience to change their lives if they want to, those guys only know their life of social benefit leisure and will never be able to make anything else out of themselves or their families
 
I guess that those posts indicating an effective tax rate of 15%-20% for contracts are just crazy then? http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showpost.php?p=1021408&postcount=2
 
A Clare FG councillor used a wonderful phrase last week to describe those "who appear to do nothing" but still enjoy the benefits of a working life. He referred to it as "effortless affluence".
I thought it was wonderful in its simplicity.
 
VOR said:
A Clare FG councillor used a wonderful phrase last week to describe those "who appear to do nothing" but still enjoy the benefits of a working life. He referred to it as "effortless affluence".
I thought it was wonderful in its simplicity.
Click to expand...

Thats a great phrase, and sums up what I have been trying to hint at.

I know many working people watching old style TVs and many have no satellite/cable TV etc.

Yet nearly all of the people I know on benefits have a large plasma TV, and Sky TV as well. Needless to say there is plenty of gaming systems at home too.

I think the problem is that so many know how to play the system, and this is how they do so well. A scam that I know is rife in NI is pretending that a married couple are actually estranged and living at different addresses. This allows a lot of fraud to be committed.

Mobility Allowance is also open to serious abuse. Again I know of several people who have a free car, complete with free servicing and there is next to nothing wrong with them. But they know how to play the game.

And unfortunately we have been raised in a society where to 'grass' these people up to the authorities isn't considered acceptable.
 
Complainer said:
I guess that those posts indicating an effective tax rate of 15%-20% for contracts are just crazy then? http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showpost.php?p=1021408&postcount=2
Click to expand...

All those posts? I don't see too many of them on AAM.

Here is the post you linked to
But with a good pension plan, maxing expenses you should retain 80-85% of invoice.

setting up a company, accountancy fees, Insurance, own training costs are all allowable expenses.
Click to expand...

I can't afford a pension, so there goes that. It is true that setting up a company, accountant fees etc... are allowable expenses, but employees do not incur these in the first place. So how do you 'max expenses'?
What expenses can I possibly use that are closed off to normal PAYE workers?
I would really love to know, I could save myself some money.

If you know the answer to this, please post it! - or PM me if you don't want to bring this off topic. I'd be delighted to hear it.
 
Family friend on mine grew up on a council estate, but was one of the few who worked her way out - now has good career, owns own house etc. etc. Says that most of her school friends got pregnant in late teens/early 20s just to get free houses and welfare - was the accepted way of life. Relative of her's once went out celebrating when he was diagnosed with a condition which technically meant he qualified for disability benefit and never had to look for work.
 
RMCF said:
And unfortunately we have been raised in a society where to 'grass' these people up to the authorities isn't considered acceptable.
Click to expand...

It's irrelevant what's acceptable in society when what these parasites are doing is patently wrong. I'd have absolutely no hesitation in "grassing them up". You know who these people are - why don't you?
 

I'm in this situation now. Recent graduate, had to up and leave all behind me. Glad to be working, but its hard to sit here and wonder when (if) I can go home for work again & what sort of environment will it be?

umop3p!sdn said:
If the politicians were forced out of the country, it would increase average intelligence in Ireland (instead of a brain drain).
Click to expand...

With nonsense like this, feel free to follow them.
 
I think the big test of how interested these folk are in working would be if they were offered a job at exactly the same weekly amount that they currently receive in benefits.

I would guess that if they could get €500 for sitting in the house and €500 for working, they would pick the house every time.
 
You should probably address your queries to whoever posted it. I note that you didn't express any surprise or query those figures when they were posted first time round, mind you.



Yep, they would probably pick the house - but maybe not for the reasons you suspect of laziness or dole addiction.

They may well pick the house because we have create a series of poverty traps. In taking the job, they don't just lose their dole, but they also lose some very basic supports, particularly medical card entitlement, after the retention period.

I'd love to know where in the country are these hugely generous local councils that are throwing houses at any girl who has a baby. I know several single parent families in Dublin (one with two kids) who are still living with parents, or in private rented accommodation.

All we're missing on this thread is a few moans about 'dem blacks'.
 
You should probably address your queries to whoever posted it. I note that you didn't express any surprise or query those figures when they were posted first time round, mind you.
Click to expand...
You seem to prefer to believe that being self employed entitles people to a tax rate of 15% to 20%. You even went to the trouble of finding and linking to the post.
I didn't query those figures before because I don't respond to every post I have a query or opinion on, or disagree with.
 
Complainer:Quote "I'd love to know where in the country are these hugely generous local councils that are throwing houses at any girl who has a baby. I know several single parent families in Dublin (one with two kids) who are still living with parents, or in private rented accommodation.

All we're missing on this thread is a few moans about 'dem blacks'.:End quote:

I couldn't agree with you more!

Its kind of like all the polish/Nigerians are all getting money for cars mobile phones blah blah.NOT TRUE
 

Brilliant.. Its so hard for some parents who are trying to do just what your parents did.

There is a tendency to target those who seem to be trying to improve their kids lives,by bullying the child etc.

Really great to hear a success story.

And there are a lot of very decent hardworking people who grew up in these estates.
 
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