The three amigos

If your only problem is with their paperwork then there isn't much of a problem. Time served should be sufficient in my view.

Click to expand...

Ah the Mary Lou defence - it was just a little adminstrative oversight.

Travelling on false passports is a 'paperwork' issue. Use of false identities to hide criminal records is not paperwork - it is deliberate frustrating of the legitimate rights of the Colombians not to let those with criminal records into their state. Lord knows they have enough problems with their natives without adding to it from the outside.

If republicans are so worried about the Columbian System of Justice, why the hell did *ex* terrorists go to such lengths to get into the country (knowingly committing a crime in the process) to hang out with other terrorists?

You don't have to go to columbia to study it's peace process. There's telephones, email, the world wide web. books, documentaries. What specifically were they hoping to learn by visiting the country?

This stinks to high heaven and the contempt that SF seem to have for our common sense is sickening. Our Brains haven't gone away you know.

We've heard the SF party line on this, can we get them off the airwaves now please, so the rest of us can eat our lunch without throwing up.

I think 17 years in prison is about right for ex-terrorists who continue to hang out with terrorists and enter countries using false identities. Perhaps the IRA will think twice before taking on any more "peace monitoring missions".

I await their imminent return to Ireland, where SF will claim they fall under the Good Friday Agreement.

-Rd

This stinks to high heaven and the contempt that SF seem to have for our common sense is sickening. Our Brains haven't gone away you know.

Click to expand...

So basically your position is...they had to be up to something, feck the justice system or fair trials, just lock 'em up and throw away the key.

Can I ask you, what are your thoughts on holding the detainees in Guantanamo Bay? Good thing or bad thing? If I search the site will I find your position to be consistent in all cases?

So basically your position is...they had to be up to something, feck the justice system or fair trials, just lock 'em up and throw away the key.

Click to expand...

My position is that I know they broke the law. (I don't know that about the detainee's you mentioned).

I also know their Peace Process story holds no water.

I *believe* that if all they did was enter the country on false passports and hang out with FARC, Columbia should still be allowed to lock them up for 17 years, if it feels like it.

The justice that FARC deals out (and the IRA for that matter) is a lot less humane. Perhaps Columbia should have taken the men out and shot them, burried them, and forgotten where they are.

I believe they should now be entitled to appeal this result and go through due process. But that's it. No sympathy, certainly no special treatment. We hand out enough special treatment to terrorists in Ireland and the UK without asking Columbia to do the same.

The quote from me that you re-posted had nothing to do with the 3 men, or Columbia. It had to do with SF's reaction to this which is insulting to our intelligence like most of SF's media output.

-Rd

fair

the columbians obviously have a different definition of fair which is their entitlement as its their country.by entering the country (illegally) for whatever reason the shinners knowingly exposed themselves to that countries justice system and whatever its consequences. sf/ira seem to have a problem with every government they come into contact with.
as far as guantanamo bay is concerned , a lot of the suspects there seem to be held far very dubious reasons in apalling conditions and have been denied any sort of trial or hearing . the shinners on the other hand, were caught, tried and sentenced for crimes they were obviously guilty of. a lot of the people whinging about it here and on tv are just shocked as they normally expect to get away with everything and assume appeals only work one way.

Re: fair

I don't see SF up in arms (pardon the pun) over the Waterford guys arrested for overstaying their visas in the USA.

They were caught, and are paying a heavy price (some might say an unfairly heavy price), but it's pretty clear they are not and have not been a threat to anyone.

Just what do you have to do to get SF on your side?

I wonder will the senior SF members who are visiting Columbia offer decomissioning of FARC weapons in return for the mens exoneration?

-Rd

Re: fair

My position is that I know they broke the law.

Click to expand...

What do you know? Except what you read in the biased media.

We're fortunate you don't control the judiciary here...maybe you should move to Colombia where things are run more to your way of thinking!

Does this kind of megalomania develop after a spell as Moderator on this BB? Or were you appointed because of the trait?

(I don't know that about the detainee's you mentioned).

Click to expand...

Yes, I thought you'd try to wriggle out of that one. You didn't answer the question I asked you.

Shall I repeat it? ...what are your thoughts on holding the detainees in Guantanamo Bay? Good thing or bad thing? In other words...are you offended by Guantanamo?...does it offend you to see muslims locked up without a fair trial ...but seeing Republicans treated that way is OK. Because you know they were up to something!?

I also know their Peace Process story holds no water.

Click to expand...

You know a lot, but with no supporting evidence.
I know that the peace process in NI is a huge success, because nobody is dying anymore .

I *believe* that if all they did was enter the country on false passports and hang out with FARC, Columbia should still be allowed to lock them up for 17 years, if it feels like it.

Click to expand...

If it feels like it? What age are you? Grow up!

they...were caught, tried and sentenced for crimes they were obviously guilty of.

Click to expand...

They were caught and tried and acquitted actually! And the court declared the witnesses for the prosecution to be perjurers too. Was that all just a mistake? Obviously!

I don't see SF up in arms (pardon the pun) over the Waterford guys arrested for overstaying their visas in the USA.

Click to expand...

Who are you talking about?

Just what do you have to do to get SF on your side?

Click to expand...

From what I know of the Irish community in America, any Irish citizen in trouble with the law in the US is given whatever assistance can be rendered by various Irish groups, and Republicans set up and run many such groups, including SF. So how do you know they aren't helping them. And what help is the Irish government giving? None?

Re: fair

What do you know? Except what you read in the biased media.

We're fortunate you don't control the judiciary here...maybe you should move to Columbia where things are run more to your way of thinking!

So what do you think they were up to then?

Does this kind of megalomania develop after a spell as Moderator on this BB? Or were you appointed because of the trait?

Careful Rd or you'll be the new picture on his dartboard.

Re: fair

Asimov says "What do you know? Except what you read in the biased media".

Ah, so only Asimov and his friends only know the truth about Sinn Fein / IRA ? The rest of us poor mortals have no right to comment on matters political. I must go and get my copy of an Phoblocht ( excuse the spelling which may be incorrect ) and learn it off by heart.

I media, I think, is biased the other way to the way Asimov thinks. Remember Pat Kenny on the Late Late a few weeks ago - he gave Gerry Adams an easy run for half an hour. Would he be so friendly to someone from the other side?

Much of the media here is "green", but thankfully not as green as Asimov would like if he were to have his way.

Jail the "Cocaine 3".

Re: fair

Piggy has arrived.
The end is nigh.

You're on my ignore list piggy.

Mr.Rabbit...I didn't see The Late Late Show...I have a principle of never watching tripe...so I can't comment on how 'easy' a 'ride' Mr.Adams had.

No doubt to someone with your viewpoint he'd have had an 'easy ride' even if they nailed him to the floor and cut his head off with a rusty knife.

I'll bet Kenny has tried to get Paisley on the show...he'd give his eye teeth for that coup...but I'm sure I know the good Reverends response to such requests...
NEVER...NEVER...NEVER!!!

Pity...I'd make an exception for him...just to see what kind of 'ride' he gave Pat Kenny!! :lol

By the way...I'm interested to know what this thing called a 'Shinner' is. How do you become a 'Shinner' exactly?

Going off their careers to-date, the fact that the they were travelling on false passports and that Sinn fein want them freed ...... GUILTY! Bring back public guillotining and stick their heads on the Town Hall railings as a warning to other members of the international terrorist network they belong to.

Off with their heads!!

`Get up!' said the Queen, in a shrill, loud voice, and the three gardeners instantly jumped up, and began bowing to the King, the Queen, the royal children, and everybody else.

`Leave off that!' screamed the Queen. `You make me giddy.' And then, turning to the rose-tree, she went on, `What have you been doing here?'

`May it please your Majesty,' said Two, in a very humble tone, going down on one knee as he spoke, `we were trying--'

`I see!' said the Queen, who had meanwhile been examining the roses. `Off with their heads!' and the procession moved on, three of the soldiers remaining behind to execute the unfortunate gardeners, who ran to Alice for protection.

`You shan't be beheaded!' said Alice, and she put them into a large flower-pot that stood near. The three soldiers wandered about for a minute or two, looking for them, and then quietly marched off after the others.

`Are their heads off?' shouted the Queen.

`Their heads are gone, if it please your Majesty!' the soldiers shouted in reply.

`That's right!' shouted the Queen. `Can you play croquet?'

The soldiers were silent, and looked at Alice, as the question was evidently meant for her.

`Yes!' shouted Alice.

`Come on, then!' roared the Queen, and Alice joined the procession, wondering very much what would happen next.

`It's--it's a very fine day!' said a timid voice at her side. She was walking by the White Rabbit, who was peeping anxiously into her face.

`Very,' said Alice:

ALICE

i think you need to get to bed a bit earlier

Re: Off with their heads!!

Ah, so only Asimov and his friends only know the truth about Sinn Fein / IRA ? The rest of us poor mortals have no right to comment on matters political

Indeed. That's certainly the impression anyway.

Going off their careers to-date, the fact that the they were travelling on false passports and that Sinn fein want them freed ...... GUILTY!

Exactly geegee. A fair trial is only right of course in these matters...but let's face it - the have guilty tatooed across their foreheads!

You're on my ignore list piggy.

Is that a promise Asimov?

Re: The idiosyncracies of piggyism

Piggy, you got me real confused.

By all accounts Columbia is an American puppet right wing state. FARC appear to be attempting to liberate the Columbian people from American suppression. I thought that was just your trough of swill.

Re: fair

What do you know? Except what you read in the biased media.

Click to expand...

I KNOW they entered columbia on false passports. Last time I checked that was breaking the law. And it's not the biased media I'm relying on, SF admit they did this.

what are your thoughts on holding the detainees in Guantanamo Bay? Good thing or bad thing?

Click to expand...

It's a bad thing. Those in Guantanamo Bay were picked up in their own country, we don't know what they are even accused of doing, much less what they actually did. We KNOW the 3 republicans went to Columbia on False passports.

Am I happy the original verdict was overturned "behind closed doors". No. Do I think Columbia is a model justice system No. Do I think terrorists who sneak into Columbia and get caught deserve any sympathy. Absolutely Not.

If it feels like it? What age are you? Grow up!

Click to expand...

Sorry, If forgot I was dealing with SF. Where are my manners. In future I'll stick to the Queens English.

I know that the peace process in NI is a huge success, because nobody is dying anymore .

Click to expand...

Not sure of the relevance of this. I don't dispute that the Irish process is a success. It does beg the question why these guys needed to study the process in Columbia.
Were they hoping to return to FARC-like activities?

they...were caught, tried and sentenced for crimes they were obviously guilty of.

Click to expand...

If you must quote me can you stick to things I said instead of making stuff up or quoting other people.

Who are you talking about?

Click to expand...

I'm talking about the Waterford lads who overstayed their holiday visa's and will be spending Christmas in US Jails.

I'm not saying the US is wrong to keep them in Jail, but since SF was campaining to bring home the Columbia Convicts before they had even stood trial, I'm amazed that SF are not organizing a bring them home campaign for these boys.

I guess there's just no votes in bringing home civilians. You can't exactly parade them as heroes before a republican fund raiser.

-Rd

I have been speaking with a Columbian colleague today. I asked him to check what his National papers are saying about our three compatriots. Firstly he says it is getting widespread coverage and in his opinion the media is pretty fair in his country. I asked him if he believed the judicial system was fair and he gave a very interesting insight into the current situation. He stated that the system is very very harsh on criminal activity but is particular easy on political “crimes”.
Specifically on the three amigos he thinks they scored an dreadful own goal when they employed the wrong lawyers. In his opinion they could have played up the political activity card and gotten a very lax sentence.

The feeling on the street is that of course they were associating with FARC of that there seems little doubt, but they could easily have made life easier for themselves. When he read the “bring them home” campaign stuff he laughed and said only a fool would actually think they are innocent, and checked that at least one of them is a convicted terrorist.

With respect to skipping the country it appears this is very simple, the Northern coast is completely unguarded as is the jungle area. There is little hope of them being in the country still. Consequent my colleague reckons that a Supreme court appeal would be nonsense.

Finally I asked him (nobody expected the Spanish inquisition) if he saw any difference between a US or UK mercenary and these folks and he said absolutely not, what else would an out of work solder do.

My disclaimer here that that he is no more an expert than any AAMers but he is politically aware and a very level headed individual.

I KNOW they entered columbia on false passports. Last time I checked that was breaking the law.

I'm talking about the Waterford lads who overstayed their holiday visa's and will be spending Christmas in US Jails.

Click to expand...

Daltonr, you condemn the Colombia 3 for passport offences, and would like to see them jailed without trial. Yet you expect leniency for 3 others who are charged with passport offences in the US?

Why don't you try to find a consistent position and stick to it. You just discredit your own argument by patent double standards.

It's a bad thing. Those in Guantanamo Bay were picked up in their own country, we don't know what they are even accused of doing, much less what they actually did.

Click to expand...

WOW!! More errors and contradictions!!

Firstly they were not ALL picked up 'in their own country'. Many of the detainees are foreign Islamist fighters - Brits, Saudis, Chechens, Jordanians, Syrians, Iranians, Indonesians - who were apprehended fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq, fighting illegally against American forces!

We don't know what are they are accused off?

Click to expand...

Maybe you haven't been keeping up with the news!

On February 24, 2004, the United States charged two detainees at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, with the following offenses triable by military commission: "attacking civilians; attacking civilian objects; murder by an unprivileged belligerent; destruction of property by an unprivileged belligerent; and terrorism, said conduct being in the context of and associated with armed conflict.

Thats what they are charged with, and the Americans think they are guilty as hell...just like you think the Colombian 3 are.

Now, having been enlightened about that, tell us again...is Guantanamo a good thing or a bad thing??

Am I happy the original verdict was overturned "behind closed doors". No. Do I think Columbia is a model justice system No. Do I think terrorists who sneak into Columbia and get caught deserve any sympathy. Absolutely Not.

Click to expand...

But do you think the Colombia 3 deserve a fair trial before you condemn them? Do the Guantanamo terrorists deserve a fair trial before you condemn them?

I said I know that the peace process in NI is a huge success, because nobody is dying anymore .
You replied..."Not sure of the relevance of this".

The relevance is that my comment was in response to your previous statement, to whit: "I also know their Peace Process story holds no water".
Its also highly relevant to all the people still alive today who could be dead if the war was still raging.
But which is it Dalton? It holds no water/Its a success? Which?
I'm having a really hard time following your logic. Is it your debating strategy to keep changing sides in order to confuse, or are you - really - just - confused?

If you must quote me can you stick to things I said instead of making stuff up or quoting other people.

Click to expand...

Actually I was responding to someone elses post. You aren't the only one in this debate. Try to keep up.

I asked a question off Rabbit that wasn't answered. What makes a Shinner?
The reason I asked is this - I'm not a member of any political party, I'm no Sinn Fein activist, I don't agree with everything they've done, or the IRA has done. But neither do I consider the British Government and security forces lillywhite. Nor do I like the politics of the DUP etc.

When I look at the political landscape, I see corrupt politics South of the border. I will not accept FF as representative of my political ethos. FG are ...wafflers! I don't know what they stand for. The PDs are right wing demagogues. The Greens are nice people, but not a party of government. The SDLP don't stand here...mores the pity, I think it has a lot to do with their fading support. So who else can represent me?
In Sinn Fein I see a party with strong and principled leaders who are striving for a peaceful solution to a war that has touched me personally.

I see the criticism they receive, and some of it I can understand, but I also understand what they have to do to hold a diverse and difficult membership together.

The funny thing is though, the more criticism they receive, the more I tend to see their side of things. There is a massive Middle Class, anti-Republican, anti - Catholic, anti-Northern, West Brit constituency out there just HATES and FEARS the electoral success that SF has had. It is typified to me my the twisted logic of someone like Daltonr, whose prejudice is so deep he leaps in with a lie to publicly defend Islamic terrorists caught red handed in Afghanistan, but condemns outright an Irishman arrested for passport offenses - but only if he is related to SF or Republicans (if not then he should be let go).
Its all bare faced HYPOCRISY.

Even though I don't agree with every SF policy, I'll support them, because no other party matches their committment to the NI peace process, or has politicians with such personal integrity...and besides, when I read the responses I elicit I like to imagine the paroxysms of rage, the frothing at the mouth, the boiling red mist that seems to descend on those who just CANNOT believe that ANYONE in their right mind could POSSIBLY see anything in the Shinners.
Good heavens, NO!

My disclaimer here that that he is no more an expert than any AAMers but he is politically aware and a very level headed individual.

Click to expand...

I don't know if this is true. He certainly sounds more of an expert most of us.

-Rd

...or has politicians with such personal integrity

You're taking the p*ss right?

There is a massive Middle Class, anti-Republican, anti - Catholic, anti-Northern, West Brit constituency out there just HATES and FEARS the electoral success that SF has had.

You sound like a campaign manager now for SF and not just a supporter. What a load of unadulterated rubbish.

It is typified to me my the twisted logic of someone like Daltonr, whose prejudice is so deep he leaps to publicly defend Islamic terrorists caught red handed in Afghanistan

So by that comment we can take it that you in fact support Guantanemo Bay then?