Sorry, link added.
Good article alright.
Sorry, link added.
Okay read the article. Tony Connelly as usual well informed. But I have a few bones to pick. He states that the main diff between Sunningdale and GFA was the rights dimension. Maybe so in the letter but my experience of the referendum on the GFA was that the rights issue was on nobody's radar, and indeed it produced no enhancement to their rights. The GFA was summed up in the public's minds as 1. Power Sharing for catholics 2. Principle of consent for protestants. 3. Release from prison for terrorists. And of course the great majority across both communities dared to hope that the nightmare might be ending.This is a very informative piece about the GFA, Brexit and the ECHR.
The main aim of the DUP, as I see it, is to unpick the GFA. They can only do that with the UK out of the ECJ and not bound by the ECHR.
Let's stick to Ireland, Theobold. I think Boris could easily follow a do nothing strategy in Ireland for quite some time. Even smugglers and Bulgarians etc. need a little time to exploit any gaps. So that really puts it up to EU/Ireland. If EU similarly do nothing then Boris has won - this whole thing about the border was bogus all along. But the EU have to do something and that really puts Leo on a spot.
The British are renowned for their commitment to social justice and rights. They fought two horrendous wars against those on the continent who brutally suppressed human rights.
Really?
Slave trade
Irish Famine (Genocide by today's definition)
Partition of Ireland under threat of war
Boer concentration camps
Amritsar massacre
Partitioning of India
Mau Mau Uprising
Famines in India
Hooded Men
Birmingham six
I'm sure there is plenty more too. The first world came about because of alliances, imperialism, militarism and nationalism. Nothing to do with human rights. WW2 came about because of WW1.
Don't forget Hillsborough and the cover up after that as well.
Then there's their record of suppressing democracy in their former colonies and installing puppet regimes which are "friendly" to British economic interests. Of course they are far from alone in that but I certainly wouldn't put them up on a pedestal.
Not many countries started wars so that their drug traffickers could continue to sell their poison. The Opium Wars fought by the UK (and aided by France in the second war) saw China's GDP cut in half. Before then it had the biggest economy in the world, as had been the case for hundreds of years, and a large trade surplus with the West. They didn't recover for over a hundred years.
Their record in India is utterly appalling and more recently in the Middle East they fought some of those wars to protect dictators and suppress democracy.
Don't forget Hillsborough
If folk here are so narrow minded that they do not recognise Britain's worldwide reputation for promoting human rights and democratic principles, well what can I say?
I remember the civil rights movement in NI. The banners shouted One Man One Vote. The burning issues were discrimination in housing, in public sector appointments, protestant domination of the main industries, a sectarian police force.
No, they are the truth.These are very cheap shots.
I'll say that you, and the rest of us, have a very anglocentric view of the world and the Brits are great self publicists. (just like the Irish)If folk here are so narrow minded that they do not recognise Britain's worldwide reputation for promoting human rights and democratic principles, well what can I say?
Yep, that great paragon of liberalism and tolerance, Cromwell, gave the world Parliamentary democracy. I think we followed the UK model and stayed in the Commonwealth because Dev thought it would make a united Ireland more likely. That idiot John A. Costello, in an attempt to wash some green into his blue shirt, pulled us out in 1949.Even the founders of this State who had to fight Britain to get independence had the sense to more or less follow the British model in establishing our democracy.
Well I'm thinking specifically about Nationalists in Northern Ireland under a DUP lead devolved government, with no recourse to the ECJ.I cannot believe that anybody seriously thinks the basic rights of folk in Britain will be worse under Brexit.
These are very cheap shots. I would be further exacerbating my falling into the trap of Godwin's Law to give examples of astronomically greater atrocities committed in continental Europe.
If folk here are so narrow minded that they do not recognise Britain's worldwide reputation for promoting human rights and democratic principles, well what can I say? Even the founders of this State who had to fight Britain to get independence had the sense to more or less follow the British model in establishing our democracy.
I cannot believe that anybody seriously thinks the basic rights of folk in Britain will be worse under Brexit. Ok, JC riffs on a bit about workers' rights but by and large Remoaners have made no issue about the threat to rights.
These are very cheap shots. I would be further exacerbating my falling into the trap of Godwin's Law to give examples of astronomically greater atrocities committed in continental Europe.
If folk here are so narrow minded that they do not recognise Britain's worldwide reputation for promoting human rights and democratic principles, well what can I say? Even the founders of this State who had to fight Britain to get independence had the sense to more or less follow the British model in establishing our democracy.
I cannot believe that anybody seriously thinks the basic rights of folk like us worse under Brexit. Ok, JC riffs on a bit about workers' rights but by and large Remoaners have made no issue about the threat to rights.
Fair point Soph. But I am looking for some sense of proportion here. Purple gave us a link to a long article by Tony Connelly on rights, GFA and Brexit. I saw only two examples cited of possible abuses of rights under Brexit. The first was the possibility that in future to claim widow's pension you might actually need to be a widow. This would affect all UK citizens but strangely has not arisen as a concern in their debate. The second abuse of rights which would only apply to Northern nationalists is that they would be denied an MEP. Note that this outrage would be perpetrated by the EU not by the evil Brits. Any Northern nationalist who claims oppressed by this denial of an MEP has either a persecution complex or a nostalgia for the bad old days when she wallowed in her victim status on the world stage.Promotion of human rights and democratic principles as applied to its citizens in Northern Ireland?
. I saw only two examples cited of possible abuses of rights under Brexit.
Chill out woman!I have been following this thread for while, and I have been getting increasingly angry with your condescending posts - it appears you would have us leave the EU along with the UK. In other news the UK is great and are above reproach in your world view, which if you truly believe, I would worry about your general grasp on reality to be quite frank with you.
To be honest, I think you should reflect on the crassness of your posts and think before you post again on this issue - at this stage you sound like an angry Colonel Blimp character which perfectly reflects the crassness of a Daily Mail or Daily Telegraph editorial. All you need to add in is two world wars an and one world cup - at this stage you are a sad joke and an apologist for the UK. Clearly, you don't appear to be happy in Ireland, perhaps you should consider leaving for the sunny uplands of Albion - which will be available on Nov 1, 2019 apparently.
In relation to Brexit, I say let them leave - we will be better off without the UK in the long run. Another theme is that the UK feels that the EU needs them more than the UK - oh boy, will that be shown up as being WRONG! (Operation Yellowhammer -which is so out of date, Philip Hammond has said that it was compiled since the blonde moron has come to power).
Does Ireland have many failings? we sure do but our best strength is that we can adapt, the history of the UK in relation to this attribute has been very poor for the last few generations.
I feel sorry for people in the UK who voted remain, I really do. But to think the EU should facilitate the crass stupidity of 17.4 million people by allowing them the advantages of the single market without any of the responsibilities is frankly delusional. If you believe the story wrought by Farage and his ilk, you must be a very silly man or if you seek it for your own advantage, then your posts take on a darker tone.
Either way, you have zero credibility with regards to me and hopefully anyone else who has followed this thread. To be honest, you should hang your head in shame with the pure rubbish that you've posted here. Hopefully the mods will put this thread out of its' misery and reflect on the "quality" of your postings.
Best regards,
Opus2018.