The line between groupies, exploitation, age gaps etc.

[Betsy Og]

First off I should stress that I'm not personally afflicted by this moral conundrum....

Irish Comedy has gone through a bad time. I don't know the...err... ins and outs of it, but I gather guys controlling comedy night bookings are alleged to have behaved badly (by their own admission in some cases).

Consent is now something to the forefront (hopefully) of everyones mind in relation to such activity. But I wonder is the net being spread too wide? I see a middle aged musician catching some of the flack - apparently he likes 'young wans' - above the age of consent mind you. So no law being broken, no allegation of undue influence/power being used (this person does not run an agency or have within his gift to make these people a star or anything like that).

Is this just one of the perks of (mild) stardom?, is a 25 year+ age gap obsene?, consenting adults can do what they want?, where would the world be without groupies etc. etc.

Wealthy guys tend to have glamourous wives. Is it because they are all charmers?, or is there a bit of "transactional" thinking going on in the background, however unspoken or socially acceptable?

What is "seedy"?, ok it might not be our personal or moral code, but are we a bit judgy (...jealous even ) of the lifestyle of others.

I think we need a public discussion about power in relationship - maybe its an aspect of the consent discussion - some of the women in Irish comedy feel very hurt by the situation and/or 'relationship' they were in. Maybe the particular men involved were just very unpleasant people. Or maybe it needs to be spelled out what is ok and what is not.

So, is there still a place/should there be a place in the world for good ol' clean (i.e. 'dirty') fun?, or the way things are going would young folk be well advised to revert to more traditional behaviours (stable monogomous relationships) to avoid being the offender/offendee??

 

[Purple]

There's an element of "When we know better we do better" in all this stuff. I'm in my mid 40's and single. If a good looking 20 year old girl with a load of drink in her came on to me in a pub there's no way I'd sleep with her. The reasons are;
1. If she was drunk she wouldn't be in a position to give consent (and yes, I do believe that).
2. I'm old enough to be her father so it would be more than a bit creepy.
3. I'm not into one night stands and what would we have in common?

So to answer your question should there be a place for the sort of thing you are talking about? Maybe, but there's no harm in calling it what it is; seedy and exploitative at best and criminal at worst.

If both parties (or more than that if that's your thing) are equal in any power dynamic and both of similar levels of maturity then crack on.

 

[Betsy Og]

Is an age gap, of itself, offensive? (all above the age limit etc - this is not warming up to an argument for criminality I can assure you!!), would it matter if it was the woman who was older?

I don't have any ....well.... skin in the game...so to speak, also mid 40s, married c15 yrs and no notions of 'straying', but just curious. I guess the 'old enough to be their Dad' thing should be a cut off point.

 

[odyssey06]

Not clear if you are talking about groupies i.e. fans of a particular performer OR wannabees... this sounds more like people who wanted to get a break in the industry were being put under pressure by people who controlled the bookings i.e. the weinstein 'casting couch' type situation?

I think the weinstein situation, as it kinda relates to employment is something of special concern.

With groupies, is it much different to what happens in a nightclub on a regular saturday night - and therefore not of special concern as long as they are both of age?
Even with a 20 year age gap, let's be honest, in a fan \ performer type situation both parties know what they are bringing to the table and what they are getting themselves involved with and what type of situations they are likely to end up in. Age gap alone between adults is not something I think we should be concerned about legally.

 

[Peanuts20]

And yet, my primary teacher was married to a man 20 years older then her, he died last year aged 101 after 50 + years of marriage and 5 kids. My neighbour buried her husband 2 years ago and there was a 22 yr old age gap between them. It does happen and it can work out ok.

 

[Betsy Og]

In the wannabees there's the exploitative 'casting couch' angle, so that's fairly clear cut wrong - even if he or she is willing to "sleep their way to the top" and in that sense consents, the person wielding power is exploiting the situation, so there is not 'unfettered consent' (or whatever the correct phrase is) and therefore its wrong.

Groupies, I guess they get what they came for. Good clean fun all things being equal. The maligned musician would have groupies (that's probably an overstatement) as opposed to wannabees, his 'crime' is cashing in on it & doing so in situations of considerable age gaps.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

There's an element of "When we know better we do better" in all this stuff. I'm in my mid 40's and single. If a good looking 20 year old girl with a load of drink in her came on to me in a pub there's no way I'd sleep with her. The reasons are;

To paraphrase GBS at what age would you? Are you just haggling about the age?

 

[Betsy Og]

To paraphrase GBH at what age would you? Are you just haggling about the age?

Hold on now, no-one said anything about paying for it....... Obv Purple being an upstanding citizen would be cautious about any lady with a load of drink in her, but this being Ireland, there'd be very little romance without some social lubrication. As to age, I've heard "half your age plus 7" as being an acceptable threshold (works better as you get older). Tbh I think any lady of 25 should have seen enough of the world to make informed decisions, so if there's a 30 year age cap I'd say so what, she's hardly an 'innocent abroad' at age 25. All the usual other consent parameters apply of course.

 

[Purple]

To paraphrase GBS at what age would you? Are you just haggling about the age?

It’s fluid, like gender is now, apparently. It comes down to a case by case judgement. I suppose I work on the assumption that any attractive 20 year old who would want to sleep with me must have their judgement impaired in some way