The great "Global Warming is Man-made" Swindle on C4 last night (8th March)

You are missing the point. Nobody has said that we should not reduce/reuse/recycle or moderate energy consumption etc.

Nobody may have said it directly but the inference is clear. If Global Warming is not due to grenhouse gases there is no point in reducing their emissions.

So Clubman, What level of proof would you need to see before you would agree to actions to limit co2 emissions?
 
The Coservative Party over here in UK are proposing another tax on flights, particularly for frequent fliers. (Leave aside how it could be workable.) Because, " air travel will contribute 25% of emissions by 2050" !
Somebody on RTE Radio this morning said that all air travel (including passenger and freight flights) contributed 2% to total global CO2 emissions. No idea if they were spoofing though.
 
So Clubman, What level of proof would you need to see before you would agree to actions to limit co2 emissions?
I never said that people should not moderate their use of expendible materials or reduce their CO2 footprints. In fact I believe that this is not necessarily a bad thing. However I am skeptical about the link between man made CO2 emissions and global warming as well as other commonly propagated "truths" about enviromental issues.
 
So Clubman, What level of proof would you need to see before you would agree to actions to limit co2 emissions?
Not sure why you want to personalise this but ... I never said that people should not moderate their use of expendible materials or reduce their CO2 footprints. In fact I believe that this is not necessarily a bad and probably a prudent thing to do and, as it happens, I try to do my own small bit to this end. However I am skeptical about the claimed links between man made CO2 emissions and global warming as well as other commonly propagated "truths" about enviromental issues (e.g. incineration and nuclear power are "bad", biofuels are "good", organic is "better" than mass produced etc.).
 
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2. Great disasters proclaimed in advance often don't live up to the hype
(Ice-age in the 70's, Population bomb in the 80's, Y2K in the 90's)
Those who tell you that the Y2k issue was all hype because the sky didn't fall in on 31/12/99 are misled. The sky didn't fall in because the issue was managed brilliantly by all those dedicated IT heads out there. There was a very, very real problem.

[From a former IT head]
 

I love the way the author of that article uses the term 'climate-change deniers', like they're on par with holocaust deniers

As someone who wouldn't know a co2 emission from a chocolate brownie I can't make any judgement on all this stuff myself, but I'd be as wary of the agenda of the climate-change deniers as I would of the climate-change supporters. Halliburton, for example, are rather dubious about climate change....enough to make me believe in it, 100%!
 
I'm pretty sure that there was an element of hype about this. I worked with several systems with no Y2K patches and they never failed. Admittedly the issue was real in certain circumstances but not to the extent portrayed by the popular media.
 
I love the way the author of that article uses the term 'climate-change deniers', like they're on par with holocaust deniers
I was reading these articles mentioning "deniers" and all I could think of was ladies' tights!
I'd be as wary of the agenda of the climate-change deniers
Why are you using that term if you seemingly object to it?
Halliburton, for example, are rather dubious about climate change....enough to make me believe in it, 100%!
Hardly a sound basis for taking a personal stand on a topical issue? The enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that...
 
I was reading these articles mentioning "deniers" and all I could think of was ladies' tights!



Why are you using that term if you seemingly object to it?

Well, this is only a post on AAM, not an article in the Guardian. But from now on I'll call them Climate Change Fishnet Stockings, and you'll know what I mean.

Hardly a sound basis for taking a personal stand on a topical issue?

Oh, I'm not so sure, it's sound enough for me. I don't think you'll go wrong if you live by the slogan: 'If Halliburton Are For It, I'm Against It'.
 
I recall that notable examples such as Italy and China didn't spend a penny on the Y2K issue and naught happened.
 
Sunday Times yesterday, Magazine section, Page 16 for yet another, and truly depressing view!
 
Check out also this speech from Bjorn Lomborg. He makes some interesting points on prioritizing the world's biggest problems - and he rates Global Warming quite low in his priorities. (This is an audio file BTW -from a speech he made in Monterey)
[broken link removed]
 
If co2 emissions do not contribute significantly to Global Warming then there is no need to limit their emissions as they are not pollutants in the ordinary sense.
In order to show an association between two variables is causitive you would document the close association between the two, remove one of the variables and show a fall in the second one and finally reintroduce the second variable and show a rise in the second one.
Now clearly that level of proof is not possible in the co2 /Global warming debate. So the question remains. What level of proof would satisfy your (rightly held) skeptism?
 
Gross exaggeration. Do you reckon that this work was funded without spending a penny? And do you consider [broken link removed]?
Fair enough. I should have said 'spent comparatively little' rather than 'didn't spend a penny'; I'm sure that lots of hours were booked , I myself wandered around putting little green 'Y2K Compliant' stickers on PCs. And yes I consider your Naples example to be very minor, approaching naught.
 

I know this question was directed at someone else, but I watched both this program on C4 and Al Gore's documentary and one thing stood out for me.

The program discussed the point Al Gore's documentary makes about
the link between CO2 levels and earth temperate measurements going
back thousands of years. Al Gore states that the temperate increases were caused by rising CO2 levels. He showed charts one under the other of both CO2 levels and temperature levels, both charts were in synch more or less. It was compelling evidence.

The scientists who refuted this on the C4 program showed the same historic temperature charts but with a difference. Instead of showing both charts seperately one on the top of the screen, the other on the bottom, they overlayed the charts and clearly showed CO2 levels rising consistently 800 years after the rise in temperature levels demonstrating that it is rising temperature that is causing CO2 levels to rise and not the other way around.

Now, it can't be both ways. One group is lying.

Either the evidence supports Al Gore's version or it supports the opposite view or it is inconclusive.

I would be extremely interested in seeing someone from the Al Gore camp explaining their use of the charts in a debate with one of the refuters.

For me this is the core of the whole debate. Those charts are the nub of the evidence.

I dont know who is right or who is wrong but I wish someone with access to the real data would jump on this and get to the bottom of it.
 
Agreed. Is there an 800 year CO2 lag or not? Al Gore's answer seems to be 'The debate is over'.