The forgotten Irish -- should we make them a priority

M

mercman

Guest
To those who saw The forgotten Irish on TV3 tonight, it should have been a real wake up call. In the main most of these old Irish call for is to be buried in Ireland. There has been a campaign for years to the Government to provide for these men to afford their final trip home. What you saw on the box tonight was luxury to what it really is. I have done the stint of helping in and around London and believe me it is so so pitiful.

I say that these men who worked drank and sent money home, deserve to be placed on top of the list of worthwhile charities and to be allowed every Irish man's finbal wishes -- to be buried at home.
 
I think they're going to explore the issue further on Tonight With Vincent Browne, at 11:05 tonight.
 
Think I saw this before (or something like it). Is this the show about the elderly Irish men & women who emigrated to England and worked to support their parents/siblings back home in the 50s-80s and then fell onto hard times due to alcoholism etc. ?

I did feel bad for them as they(and others who hadn't fallen by the wayside) had made a major contribution to those who they had left behind.

I think that considering the pitiful amount of money it would cost to repatriate them (or their remains) would be money well spent.
 
Pique318 said:
I think that considering the pitiful amount of money it would cost to repatriate them (or their remains) would be money well spent.
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Exactly. I have been campaigning for this for years. But and with every respect there are those who feel we are better serving charities that have no connection, affiliation or relationship with this country.
 
True, like half a million to Sumatra for, what exactly, the massive Irish community there ?

Charity does begin at home (or at least those who still would call Ireland their 'home'), IMO.
 
Well if I could persuade the Mods to have this thread come under NEW POSTS, we might get a proper campaign going. And shame to those who dismiss this.
 
I say that these men who worked drank and sent money home, deserve to be placed on top of the list of worthwhile charities and to be allowed every Irish man's finbal wishes -- to be buried at home.
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"Are you going across to Ireland? Will you take me in your car?"
Do these people really want to come back to Ireland? Few, who had the choice, actually did. Even in the boom/bubble years.
 
umop3p!sdn said:
Few, who had the choice, actually did. Even in the boom/bubble years.
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That is pure crap at its best. The one thing the old Irish in London, where I have met, spoken and visited them, is to be buried in Ireland. There was no boom/bubble for these people - existence was/is difficult enough. But the Minister for Rural & Community Affairs has another view.
 
mercman said:
Well if I could persuade the Mods to have this thread come under NEW POSTS, we might get a proper campaign going. And shame to those who dismiss this.
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+1

I didn't see the programme tonight, but lived in London for 15 years and knew many of the emigrants from 50's & 60's. The hardship and racial discrimination they suffered was unimaginable in today's world.

Many changed their accents and names in an attempt to blend in with the english. But a very large percentage of the people I met have serious problems with alcoholism, broken marriages, gambling etc.

On speaking to them however, they all long to be back in Ireland or at least to be buried here. They have never lost their culture/roots despite the hardship many of them suffered at the hands of the religious orders here also.

Gotta stop here or I'll get more penalty points from mods.
 
This subject was a particular interest of the former Mayo TD, Dr Jerry Cowley.

As far as I can remember, he set up a retirement community in Mayo specifically for Irish emmigrants that allowed them to return home to comfort and with dignity.

I think efforts like these should be extended and supported whereever possible.
 
These people would like to be buried in Ireland?

Ring the Co. Co., book a plot, same as me or you.


600 euro in Galway city, for example.

[broken link removed]

Feel free, let them work away and book the burial spots.
 
Staples said:
This subject was a particular interest of the former Mayo TD, Dr Jerry Cowley.
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Staples, thanks for that info. I will follow that up. Is it any wonder An Bord Snip is trying to close up O'Cuivs show ??
 
Protocol said:
Ring the Co. Co., book a plot, same as me or you.
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So you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth. Fair play to you. So they had to go away in many cases. Sent the money home to help rear the family. You obviously don't remenber or never heard what rural Ireland was like in the 60s,70s and 80s
 
Protocol said:
These people would like to be buried in Ireland?

Ring the Co. Co., book a plot, same as me or you.


600 euro in Galway city, for example.

[broken link removed]

Feel free, let them work away and book the burial spots.
Click to expand...

Many of them will already have family buriel plots in their homeplace (my uncle was buried in his parents plot).

Secondly, many of them are desitute and can't afford to start buying plots - they are living in homeless hostels or sleeping rough on the streets in london - just take a walk under Waterloo Bridge and see for yourself.
 
That's the dream alright, it's in all the songs. The reality is different though.
I feel sorry for alcoholics etc, but it wasn't London that made them that way. England enabled them to buy the drink. They knew what side their bread was buttered when they moved to England, and stayed there. Plenty more of them made a great success of their lives because England gave them far more opportunities than they could ever get in Ireland.

You speak to the unfortunate ones, and what do you expect to hear? They say they'd like to be back. What else do they have to lay the blame on? Did that documentary interview the rich ones?

I know this from direct experience.
 
Most of the rich ones don't want to come back or even be interviewed. Nothing here for them apart from a load of Upstarts. When and if you had of endured the hardship that some of these blokes went through you might have a different view. Like having the stuffing kicked out of you weekly by the Mets only because you were Irish. Or trying to show your face after a bomb and you're irish etc.etc.
 
mercman said:
So you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth.

No.

You obviously don't remenber or never heard what rural Ireland was like in the 0s,70s and 80s
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I know well that the during the 50s there was very high emigration out of Irl. Indeed, up to 500,000 people left, causing the pop to fall to an all-time low in 1961 of 2.8m. Very high emigration (has any other country ever experienced such high rates??)

During the 60s, emigration slowed, until it turned into immigration in the early 70s.

But, as you say, emigration returned during 1980-1990, as the 80s were as bleak as the 50s. Plus the associated brain drain.
 
They key question is:

Are we as taxpayers responsible for other Irish people not being responsible enough to prepare for their own deaths?

Are you as a taxpayer prepared to pay more tax to pay the funeral and burial costs for Irish emigrants?

Plenty of my family emigrated, but they covered their own funeral costs.
 

They all left either in search of work or to escape the penal abuse they suffered here in the likes of industrial schools/magdalen launderies. Many girls left because they were un-married and pregnant and would have been outcasts here.

The men used to queue up every morning in places in kilburn/cricklewood waiting for someone to come along and offer them a job even just for that day.

Many of the women had illegal abortions and died as a result or were left with permanent damage. All studies on alcoholism, promiscuity, gambling etc show a very high correlation with childhood sexual abuse. In many cases drinking was the main form of socialisation for them in UK, apart from the fact that it might numb the pain of what they had suffered in Ireland - and I do know what I'm talking about here.

And yes of course there are the success stories, but that's not what this discussion is about.
 
Oh gosh Protocol, that is a little bit too black and white for my liking. Perhaps the key questions are:

1. Are charitable donations something the Government should be making with our tax revenue?

2. If the answer is 'yes' or ' maybe', is the repatriation of down-on-their-luck Irish people a worthy object of charity.

I think I am in the yes camp on this one. Just about, mind you.
 
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