The case of adopted boy Tristan

[SteelBlue05]

from Rte.ie..

"The Dowses will also pay an immediate lump sum of €20,000 and a monthly payment of €350 until Tristan reaches 18.
Half of the monthly payment will go directly to Tristan's mother, while the remainder will go into a capital account for Tristan's benefit.
These payments will increase in accordance with the Consumer Price Index. The court has also ordered the payment of an additional lump sum of €25,000 payable when the boy reaches 18 years."

I think thats a reasonable punishment but I think it is unfair for the boy to retain rights of succession to the estates of his adoptive parents. Now I am not for a second trying to defend what the adoptive parents did but it seems to me that the boy now has succession rights to the estates of his natural parents and also his once adoptive parents. I think relative to other crimes and punishments that this is a harsh punishment.

The adoptive parents will be supporting the boy up until he is 18, I think that is enough.

What do you think? Am I being too leniant on what the adoptive parents did?

 

[jasconius]

Certainly the judge treated the boy fairly for what they did, in setting up payments etc.
I am in agreement with you on your succession view, though I am not too sure what the current law is when you give a child up for adoption at the moment in Ireland - I assume that succession rights are lost and the child would take on the adopting parents' succession.
But as far as I know the Dowses are not bound to leave all and sundry to Tristan once he reaches the age of 18. There are surely many cases of 18+ year olds who have been disinherited along with relatives and the money given to say charity - you cannot be bound to leave your money to your children if they are of age -there is not much they can do about it either.

 

[ClubMan]

from Rte.ie..

"The Dowses will also pay an immediate lump sum of €20,000 and a monthly payment of €350 until Tristan reaches 18.
Half of the monthly payment will go directly to Tristan's mother, while the remainder will go into a capital account for Tristan's benefit.
These payments will increase in accordance with the Consumer Price Index. The court has also ordered the payment of an additional lump sum of €25,000 payable when the boy reaches 18 years."

I think thats a reasonable punishment

I don't think that this financial arrangement is intended as punishment but rather them being compelled by the court to meet their financial obligations to their adopted child.

but I think it is unfair for the boy to retain rights of succession to the estates of his adoptive parents. Now I am not for a second trying to defend what the adoptive parents did but it seems to me that the boy now has succession rights to the estates of his natural parents and also his once adoptive parents.

Are you familiar with inheritance laws in Indonesia? Whether you consider it fair or not his claim on the adoptive parents' estate was secured once the adoption took place.

 

[Marion]

The child carries an Irish passport. So, I would suspect that Irish/EU succession laws would apply?

Marion

 

[dam099]

The child carries an Irish passport. So, I would suspect that Irish/EU succession laws would apply?

Marion

Actually I would say where the parents are resident at the time of their death and the location of the assets which form their estate will be the most relevant factors in whose sucession laws apply. The location of potential sucessors is not normally a determining factor certainly under Irish law which if the are living in Ireland and their estate is in Ireland would be what applys.

Irish succession law does not impose any obligation to leave anything to children unless the child can make a case they were not provided for adequately while a child so unless thats what the judge is indicating making a will leaving everything to someone else would make the succession rights irrelevant.

 

[Gordanus]

Irish succession law does not impose any obligation to leave anything to children unless the child can make a case they were not provided for adequately while a child so unless thats what the judge is indicating making a will leaving everything to someone else would make the succession rights irrelevant.

I thought the law is that that the spouse gets two-thirds and the offspring one-third between them. Or can that be altered a. if the offspring are adults? b. you make a will saying otherwise, even if the children are minors?

 

[dam099]

I thought the law is that that the spouse gets two-thirds and the offspring one-third between them. Or can that be altered a. if the offspring are adults? b. you make a will saying otherwise, even if the children are minors?

No thats what happens if a person dies intestate (no will made).

If the children are still minors and are not provided for in a will they could probably make a case that they are not being adequately provided for and seek a share. An adult child can still claim I think if they were not adequately provided for during the time they were a minor.

I'm not sure that this argument can be made here though because the judge has in effect ordered that they make what I presume he considered adequate provision in paying the 2 lumps sums and the monthly maintenance (while not overly massive amounts of money in Irish terms I'm sure it will go a lot further in Indonesia). I suppose maybe he is covering for the potential situation where they might die before Tristan reaches 18 and has received only part of the settlement ordered, his succession rights could be used to enforce provision of the outstanding amounts against their estate.

 

[Purple]

As far as I know the law makes no distinction between an adopted child and a biological one for the point of view of the obligations that parents have toward it. AFAIK this adoption has been found to be illegal under Irish law. If this is the case why have the parents any legal obligation to the child. If the adoption is legal then the adoptive parents should be in prison for abandoning their child.
Whatever the legal position is I think what they have done is utterly despicable and if they were my friends or members of my family I would never speak to the again. If there was some legal mechanism that would be used to put them both in prison for the next 15 years I would be in favour of using it. They are the lowest form of scum and nothing, and I mean nothing, can excuse what they have done.

 

[ClubMan]

Does anybody know where the authoritative account (not a newspaper summary) of the court proceedings and judgement can be found? I've tried courts.ie without success.

 

[Allen]

If the adoption is legal then the adoptive parents should be in prison for abandoning their child.

They did not "abandon" the child. They left him (back) in an orphanage - just like thousands of Irish mothers were forced to do in the past.

 

[ubiquitous]

They did not "abandon" the child. They left him (back) in an orphanage

Pretty much the same thing I would have thought?

From dictionary.com (relevant words highlighted in bold for emphasis)

abandon

a·ban·don ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-bndn)
tr.v. a·ban·doned, a·ban·don·ing, a·ban·dons
To withdraw one's support or help from, especially in spite of duty, allegiance, or responsibility; desert: abandon a friend in trouble.
To give up by leaving or ceasing to operate or inhabit, especially as a result of danger or other impending threat: abandoned the ship.
To surrender one's claim to, right to, or interest in; give up entirely. See Synonyms at relinquish.

leave ( P ) Pronunciation Key (lv)
v. left, (lft) leav·ing, leaves
v. tr.
To go out of or away from: not allowed to leave the room.

To go without taking or removing: left my book on the bus.
To omit or exclude: left out the funniest part of the story.
To have as a result, consequence, or remainder: The car left a trail of exhaust fumes. Two from eight leaves six.
To cause or allow to be or remain in a specified state: left the lights on.

To have remaining after death: left a young son.
To bequeath: left her money to charity.
To give over to another to control or act on: Leave all the details to us.

To abandon or forsake: leave home; left her husband.
To remove oneself from association with or participation in: left the navy for civilian life.

To give or deposit, as for use or information, upon one's departure or in one's absence: He left a note for you. Leave your name and address.
To cause or permit to be or remain: left myself plenty of time.
Nonstandard. To allow or permit; letg to continue; desist from: abandoned the search for the missing hiker.
To yield (oneself) completely, as to emotion.

...just like thousands of Irish mothers were forced to do in the past.

...hardly a valid comparison as Mr & Mrs Dowse did not lack the financial resources to support Tristan. Nor were they "forced" in any way to do what they did.

 

[Purple]

They did not "abandon" the child. They left him (back) in an orphanage - just like thousands of Irish mothers were forced to do in the past.

I find that comparison obscene.
They took a child that had only ever known them as his parents, who spoke only English and who was morally theirs and they left him in an utterly alien environment. They are cruel and heartless people who deserve nothing but scorn and contempt. There is no circumstance that could in any way mitigate what they have done.

 

[kazbah]

Speaking as an adopted person I find it abhorrent that you feel to compare mothers relinquishing babies due to circumstances in Ireland in the past to the Dowses returning Tristan is a fair comparision.

It is unfortunate enough that children are without their natural/birth damily without being rejected by those who took them in. No money in the world will make up for the pain this child will feel.

 

[Allen]

I find it abhorrent that you feel to compare mothers relinquishing babies due to circumstances in Ireland in the past to the Dowses returning Tristan is a fair comparision.

I in no way intended to compare mothers relinquishing babies due to circumstances in Ireland in the past to the Dowses' actions. I was making the comparison with the Catholic Church's forcing of mothers to give up their babies.