Tenants leaving well before 56-day legal notice period. Can I keep their deposit?

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Arnie Hammer

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I have an apartment in Dublin that I held on to after I got married. I've had a couple in place as tenants since June 2017. They've paid the rent on time and have been good tenants.

They pay at the end of the month, but on the 14th of this month (September) I got a bolt from the blue. They gave me notice that they would be quitting on the 30th of the month. They've signed a lease on a new place and are already half moved out. They've told me they won't pay any rent for October and want their deposit back in full.

Turning the property round is difficult for me at the moment for few reasons, including work and a new-born baby. From what I can tell properties are sitting much longer on Daft than normal due to Covid.

Tenants have given me 16 days notice, but if I read the RTB website correctly they are actually obliged to give me 56 days' notice as their tenancy has lasted between two and four years. This would mean that they can leave no earlier than November 11 unless I agree otherwise.

I've inspected it a few times and I don't anticipate any damage needing expenditure. What I want to know if if I can keep their month's deposit in full due to them leaving inside the legal notice period?
 
Thanks. I am letting them go, I can't stop them leaving.

I want to know if (legally) I can keep their deposit.

I will likely be out of pocket as finding new tenants will take a while. If I'd had the 56 days I would have been able to line someone up to move in soon after they left.
 
From rtb website

"If a tenant provides insufficient notice of their termination of the tenancy, or they terminate a fixed term tenancy before the end of the agreed term."

Having said that I'm with Ravmina here; your former tenant can still attempt to recover their deposit via a complaint to the RTB. They may not ultimately suceed, but do you really need that hassle?
 
I personally would overlook their lack of adequate notice and refund them their deposit based upon the fact they were hitherto good tenants who kept the property in a good state of repair. If you withhold their deposit they may well lodge a claim to the RTB.
 
Pmc365 said:
I personally would overlook their lack of adequate notice and refund them their deposit based upon the fact they were hitherto good tenants who kept the property in a good state of repair. If you withhold their deposit they may well lodge a claim to the RTB.
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But if the RTB website says I can withhold deposit for inadequate notice then what grounds would they have to go to the RTB?

All I can withhold is the deposit which is 31 days rent. They've given me 14 days notice and 56-14=42. Shouldn't they be liable for the extra 11 days as well?
 
Tell them that they have given inadequate notice and you are within your rights to withold the deposit but say you are willing to meet them half way. Less hassle for all I think.
 
You need to thoroughly inspect the property before you decide on the deposit.

They owe you rent because they are not giving adequate notice. You also need to take meter readings for electricity and gas, etc.
 
OP - you can enforce the terms and conditions and withhold the deposit for inadequate notice.

The tenants should have factored this in to their move. In the current environment, they may be availing of a better deal elsewhere. Perhaps their finances have become more precarious and they need to make alternative arrangements? Are they paying a high proportion of their income in rent on your property do you know?

It is definitely annoying - I get that. If your tenants were letting from a REIT, I presume the REIT would be having none of it (though maybe I am doing the professional landlord sector down here and they would be beneficent if a tenant needs to leave at short notice and just accept it as a cost of doing business!).

However, consider is it worth the time and hassle of bad blood between you and your soon to be ex-tenants and a possible drawn out process with the RTB. From the sounds of things, you have enough on your plate.

Are your margins so tight on the property that this event is going to put the squeeze on you? Will the deposit be included as taxable income and so the tax man may get a bite? (Or may not if there is not much to be taxed when all the calculations are done at tax time).

You got 3+ years of zero hassle, reasonable income, no property damage I am presuming, and importantly, no void periods. As a residential property landlord, you'd generally conservatively factor in 11 months of rental receipts in a year - allowing for one month void. Even if it takes you a month, or a month and a half to turn the property around, on a 3-yr view you are coming out ahead in my book.

The statement about their move being a bolt out of the blue should not be a surprise. You are in the property letting business - people coming and going are par for the course.

If your personal circumstances impinge on your ability to manage your property business, Ravima's suggestion to get an agent is a good one.
 
Arnie Hammer said:
Tenants have given me 16 days notice, but if I read the RTB website correctly they are actually obliged to give me 56 days' notice as their tenancy has lasted between two and four years. This would mean that they can leave no earlier than November 11 unless I agree otherwise.
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Conventional wisdom is that you need to give a months notice when quitting a rental, they have given you half a month in notice period. Therefore the fairest thing is that you return half the deposit and keep the other half. Presumably the deposit is a months rent upfront that they paid, I think they would accept that as fair.
 
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Let them leave. Tell them you will inspect the apartment. Then a day later after they are gone and locks changed etc tell them Eatab advised you are entitled to keep deposit as they haven't honoured terms of lease.

This works both ways. Both tenants and landlords are protected. Use it.
 
Arnie Hammer said:
But if the RTB website says I can withhold deposit for inadequate notice then what grounds would they have to go to the RTB?

All I can withhold is the deposit which is 31 days rent. They've given me 14 days notice and 56-14=42. Shouldn't they be liable for the extra 11 days as well?
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But you have already accepted their shorter notice without objection.... so too late to change your mind now.
 
Thanks for all the advice. I'm inclined to compromise and withhold half of their month's deposit. Even if 56 days is the legal requirement to give notice I think something like a month is reasonable, and the two weeks they've given me isn't.

If I find a tenant within less than two weeks (unlikely) I will refund them the difference.

Thirsty said:
Having said that I'm with Ravmina here; your former tenant can still attempt to recover their deposit via a complaint to the RTB. They may not ultimately suceed, but do you really need that hassle?
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A few people have mentioned this but I don't see what grounds they would have to go to the RTB. It seems clear that they didn't respect the notice period.


AAAContributor said:
OP - you can enforce the terms and conditions and withhold the deposit for inadequate notice.

The tenants should have factored this in to their move. In the current environment, they may be availing of a better deal elsewhere.
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Yes I think this is it as they are in steady employment. Something closer to work has come up (maybe cheaper too) and they've jumped at it.

AAAContributor said:
However, consider is it worth the time and hassle of bad blood between you and your soon to be ex-tenants and a possible drawn out process with the RTB. From the sounds of things, you have enough on your plate.
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I am not really worried about bad blood. It's a business relationship and I just want what is legally mine. I take your point that RTB is a hassle but I don't see that I have too much to lose.

AAAContributor said:
Are your margins so tight on the property that this event is going to put the squeeze on you?.......You got 3+ years of zero hassle, reasonable income, no property damage I am presuming, and importantly, no void periods. As a residential property landlord, you'd generally conservatively factor in 11 months of rental receipts in a year - allowing for one month void. Even if it takes you a month, or a month and a half to turn the property around, on a 3-yr view you are coming out ahead in my book.
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The whole set-up makes sense financially for us at the moment (I'll spare the details) and there's no cash flow issue. I had just assumed that I would get more than 14 days notice to find new tenants, and when I looked up the legislation it seems that it is actually 56.


Jim2007 said:
But you have already accepted their shorter notice without objection.... so too late to change your mind now.
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I've actually told them my understanding is that they need to give 56 days notice. But they are leaving anyway. So I don't think I've "accepted". I can't really refuse if they insist on giving me the keys back and stop paying rent.

AndroidMan said:
Tell them that they have given inadequate notice and you are within your rights to withold the deposit but say you are willing to meet them half way. Less hassle for all I think.
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Thanks. I will most likely take this approach.
 
Arnie Hammer said:
I have an apartment in Dublin that I held on to after I got married. I've had a couple in place as tenants since June 2017. They've paid the rent on time and have been good tenants.

They pay at the end of the month, but on the 14th of this month (September) I got a bolt from the blue. They gave me notice that they would be quitting on the 30th of the month. They've signed a lease on a new place and are already half moved out. They've told me they won't pay any rent for October and want their deposit back in full.

Turning the property round is difficult for me at the moment for few reasons, including work and a new-born baby. From what I can tell properties are sitting much longer on Daft than normal due to Covid.

Tenants have given me 16 days notice, but if I read the RTB website correctly they are actually obliged to give me 56 days' notice as their tenancy has lasted between two and four years. This would mean that they can leave no earlier than November 11 unless I agree otherwise.

I've inspected it a few times and I don't anticipate any damage needing expenditure. What I want to know if if I can keep their month's deposit in full due to them leaving inside the legal notice period?
Click to expand...


Keep it. I am tired of hearing these stories and have experienced this type of situation myself. I explain at the outset of every tenancy that I am fair however I have to pay the mortgage of the property. If the tenant moves out before the agreed end date in the rental agreement I make it clear that I will keep the deposit and I get confirmation from them that they acknowledge this fact.

I don't disagree with any of the above posts in regards to the hassle of the RTB but people need to be held accountable for breaking leases and fear of the RTB should not be a deciding factor when someone breaks the rules. If landlords don't keep deposits are we just further encouraging this type of behavior, breaking leases etc.
 
imalwayshappy said:
If the tenant moves out before the agreed end date in the rental agreement I make it clear that I will keep the deposit and I get confirmation from them that they acknowledge this fact.
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What planet are you living on, that signed paperwork is about as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike.

Model tenants for the last few years, and the OP wants to act the maggot with them. Ridiculous. Be thankful you dont have to chase arrears, do a makeover on the property, have to have any dealings whatsoever with the Rtb etc.

This nonsense equates to two weeks rent.

Try this with approach with a few of the more experienced undesirable tenants, and you will rue the day you tried to be smart with the few good ones out there.
 
imalwayshappy said:
If the tenant moves out before the agreed end date in the rental agreement I make it clear that I will keep the deposit and I get confirmation from them that they acknowledge this fact.
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Thanks. I looked at the lease again and it says that rules around notice period are as per the law in force. I don't think you can vary this with the specific lease really.

LS400 said:
Model tenants for the last few years, and the OP wants to act the maggot with them.
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I chose tenants carefully and and did lots of repairs and other asks from them. To me the courtesy should run both ways.

For the next set of tenants I will make it clear at the outset that I expect notice in line with the legal minimum.
 
I dont think you fully understand how completely dysfunctional the rental market is.

You can sign up the sweetest individuals you have ever come across.. if they want to make your life hell, they have every tool available to them to do this, and then, having done so, move on to the next unsuspecting victim.

Seriously, pick you battles.
 
LS400 said:
What planet are you living on, that signed paperwork is about as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike.

Model tenants for the last few years, and the OP wants to act the maggot with them. Ridiculous. Be thankful you don't have to chase arrears, do a makeover on the property, have to have any dealings whatsoever with the Rtb etc.

This nonsense equates to two weeks rent.

Try this with approach with a few of the more experienced undesirable tenants, and you will rue the day you tried to be smart with the few good ones out there.
Click to expand...


Disagree. What is the OP meant to do with these "model tenants". Thank them refusley for not putting holes in the walls? not living in their own filth? Handing back a rental property the way they received it? Honoring a commitment? People need to take responsibility. Period.

I do agree that the market is dysfunctional but the fact that we are normalizing that its's ok to break a lease whenever you want and you should be thankful as a landlord that your property was returned to you in the condition you gave it is wrong.
 
The tenants should have moved out and the property inspected thoroughly before you even contemplate returning the deposit. They will also owe money for utilities so take meter readings.

Security Deposits | Residential Tenancies Board

RTB operates Ireland's National Tenancy Register and resolving disputes between Landlords, tenants and third parties. Governed by residential Tenancies Act 2004. View more information on landlords and tenancies.
www.rtb.ie www.rtb.ie

If the shoe was on the other foot and it was the the landlord not giving the correct notice there would be a public outcry.
 
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