Tenant gives notice but after date specified doesn't move out

Seagull said:
No issue here? I'd consider it a pretty major issue when tenants refuse to move out after giving notice, and then demand 5K to move.
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I've paid a tenant to leave. Glad to see the back of them, I gave them back the deposit despite the damage and intimidation to my relation collecting the rent to get them leave. I had the disgusting task of rebagging about 30 filthy bags of household waste. And I was still glad to get rid of them. The man nearly murdered a child in the street later. They destroyed all the windos in another house and both of them ended up in jail for different legal offences.

I did not address the 5K in my post. The OP now knows the kind of people he is dealing with. So he'd want to be very very careful to do this by the book.
 
dcheck said:
Unbelievable the mentality of this poster. I still suggest the OP to take matter to RTB and make the tenant suffer as much as legally possible .
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Right so, let's see what a waste of time that will be to the landlord.

What dcheck do you think the RTB will do for this landlord. Or indeed any landlord. You do realise they will only spend money on court cases for tenants and not the other way around. The landlord, who pays for the RTB, is on his own, financially and legally. Even if the RTB were to act, the landlord could end up with zero rent for a couple of years, a thrashed property at the end of it, and the RTB telling him he did everything right !

But heh, I've the unbelievable mentality.
 
bipped said:
Would that be considered blackmail ? If it is, does the landlord need a solicitor to write to the tenant?
What are the consequences if found guilty of blackmail
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LOL, thousands on a solicitor. You do realise you have to go first to the RTB ? And you realise how long that will take. And then you'll end up being told, eventually, by the RTB, that you need to go to a solicitor, who will then have to hire a barrister, which of course is very cheap.
 

Oh dear, the worst possible scenario.

My advice now changes to this: a) how much is the annual rent b) how much would the RTB give the tenant if the landlord illegally evicts
c) add in new rent that would be received d) how much for going to court e) do the maths

OR
e) 5K, negotiate to less, but don't give until house is all packed up, they get the cash, on the door step onsighing a legal document that is is voluntary.

Tenants are despicable

- notice and didn't leave
- demanded 5K
- now not paying rent
- now playing the RTB waiting game
- hte RTB know all about the waiting game, they created it by having backlogs
- the RTB being zero help, despite us landlords paying for them
- what the RTB didn't tell the landlord is that he's wasting his time with them
- this landlord is costing us landlords more money as the RTB has to waste their resources dealing with this and with zero benefit to anybody]

Finally my best advice, become a member of IPOA and get proper advice from them.
 
@Bronte

My comment that you should really have read the full thread was in response to your comment that there was no problem here, as long as they pay their rent...

If you had read the thread in full you would have seen that the tenant was in arrears with their rent.
 

You're wrong. These cases are the ones where the RTB makes the highest awards. Against landlords. And they can enforce them against landlords as they are a mark. On the flip side of this, which is not a positive, any award made against a tenant is meaningless and will not be enforced by the RTB as tenant's are not a mark.
 

Better in arrears, which can be managed with cajooling and bothering than zero rent for 2 years, court costs, stress, and a thrashed property. There's zero chance of getting 2 years of arrears. The landlord is screwed. And legally this is the position he finds himself in. Despite doing zero wrong.

And you're wrong, I did read the thread, and advised accordingly. Landlord would have been in a much better poisition if he'd just played ball with the tenant staying. Which was my first advice. I knew he was snookered. Especially given the details, particuarly the 5K demand.

I'd love to know however what the PRTB advised him. And if it was in writing.
 
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That's fine @Bronte but you very clearly offered your opinion without reading the full thread so your view that there was "no problem here" was based on incomplete information.

Incidentally, you are completely mistaken in your view that the RTB will only take legal proceedings on behalf of tenants.

I am personally aware of a number of cases where the RTB commenced legal proceedings to enforce a determination order against tenants for over-holding/rent arrears. In one case, that included initiating contempt proceedings where a tenant failed to observe a court order to vacate a property.

I don't know where you are getting 2 years of rent arrears from, you might explain.

Finally, I don't agree with bribing tenants to quit - I've seen that strategy backfire too many times.
 

How much were the landlords out of pocket in those cases? A determination order is legally useless, what good is it to you if the tenant still stays? I note you mention a 'number' of cases to the useless determination orders as they don't have legal teeth.

Yet you mention one single case of a contempt case brought by the RTB, who much did that landlord lose, and I can just imagine how bad it must have been as the RTB have stated on their website (I've read it and am not sure if it's still there) that they will make a cost analysis on taking court cases, and we all know what that means.

Have you seen many cases where the RTB went for and got tenants to pay rent arrears of a year or so?

(In two years time the current thread's landlords will be 2+ years out of rent, in rent arrears of 2+ years. Versus currently one month in arrears. No tenant can repay 2 years, you have a chance with 1 month. )
 
@Bronte

In that particular case, I understand it took around 9 months from filing a complaint with the RTB to the initiation of contempt proceedings for failure to comply with the resulting court order (at which point the tenant quit the property).

The RTB met the full costs of the legal proceedings.

Prior to that, I understand the landlord spent around 6 months before filing a complaint with the RTB trying to cajole the tenant to meet her obligations - to no avail.

The landlord in question has registered a judgment against the tenant for the amount of the unpaid rent. I understand the former tenant is currently out of work due to health issues.
 
Why did the RTB issue contempt proceedings? How long did it take for the determination order? Was the tenant out of pocket 6 months plus 9 months?

9 months is expeditious, so I'm shocked at that, was that recently, odd then the current thread landlords has been told by the RTB 1 to 2 years.

And one notes that the landlord has a court case to register a judgement against the tenant, how much did that cost. With zero return.
 
@Bronte

Again, the RTB sought a court order to enforce their determination against the tenant. When the tenant failed to comply with that determination, the RTB initiated court proceedings. When the tenant failed to comply with the resulting Court Order, the RTB issued contempt proceedings.

In terms of timing, I gather it took around 3 months from filing the complaint for the RTB to issue their determination order; another 3 months or so to get the Court order to enforce that determination; and another 3 months or so before the RTB issued contempt proceedings when the tenant failed to comply with the Court order.

Incidentally, the OP didn't actually say who told the landlord how long this process would take.
 
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@Bronte

You seem to prefer a less formal route to resolving these issues before making a complaint to the RTB.

That's absolutely fair enough and I wouldn't disagree with that approach.

However, that approach doesn't always work, particularly in cases where a tenant has minimal disposable income for whatever reason.

Sometimes the RTB/legal route is all you are left with - for all its faults.
 
This sounds horrific for the landlord in this case. - would it not solve an awful lot of these problems if tenants who do things like this could be on a register of some sort so that they would find it very difficult to get a property again in the future if they behave in this way.
 
Surely, in extreme circumstances suck as the blackmail above, the trick for the landlord is not to be connected with the heavies and for the heavies to threaten something if the words PRTB or RTB are even whispered?
 
That's certainly one approach Gordon but hiring "heavies" comes with significant risks - both civil and criminal.

I don't think it's a good idea.
 
Sarenco said:
That's certainly one approach Gordon but hiring "heavies" comes with significant risks - both civil and criminal.

I don't think it's a good idea.
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I agree.

I’m only aware of one case where heavies were deployed. They weren’t hired and were teammates of the landlord. A rogue tenant was wrecking the place, refusing to pay his rent, terrorising neighbours, and wanted to be paid to leave. The landlord had gone back to do a Masters and was really tight for cash.

The lads went around, chatted with the tenant, and suggested that certain things might happen unless he left and that certain other things might happen if any authorities became involved.

The problem went away.
 
Fair enough Gordon.

Deploying heavies comes with significant risks, both civil and criminal.

I wouldn't recommend it.
 
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